How about making emacs close when I hit the "close window" button on Windows 7?
> Windows 7
Found the issue.
25 years ago I hoped we would extend Emacs to do WYSIWG word processing
121–130 of 186 posts
Re: 25 years ago I hoped we would extend Emacs to do WYSIWG word processing
#122How about making emacs close when I hit the "close window" button on Windows 7?
It closes for me fine. Just tested it to be sure.
Re: 25 years ago I hoped we would extend Emacs to do WYSIWG word processing
#123Is this as staggeringly naive as it looks?
Some of the people responding are steering the discussion to a layout language with a preview window. I don't know if they are doing it because they prefer to work in such a user-hostile mode (I did this for a book, in Eclipse. Ugh.), or if they think this is a more sane goal.
WYSIWYG has its own issues. most users of word processors have no idea that paragraphs are objects in an object model, but the command structure only becomes clear when you realize that. Most users just hack at a document it until it looks right enough. At the really diabolical end of the spectrum I could show you an Ericsson documentation template that manages to manifest dozens of bugs in Word, laying in wait to eat your previous hour's work. I'm sure you have inherited documents like that.
It's all more or less a kludge, and WYSIWYG never is quite, nor is it real direct manipulation. At best it is something like "moderately friendly visual document CAD, if you get the trick behind the slick appearance."
Re: 25 years ago I hoped we would extend Emacs to do WYSIWG word processing
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
LyX is a great LaTeX WYSIWYM editor: http://www.lyx.org/
Though I end up just using LaTeX (with memoir class) most of the time, I've always thought LyX hit a sweet spot between strict enforcement of document structure and forcing people to write markup. For the life of me, I can't figure out why LyX doesn't exist as a collaborative google docs style web app.
I like writelatex.com lately.
Re: 25 years ago I hoped we would extend Emacs to do WYSIWG word processing
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a pain to see "Dr" next to bullshit like this: > "Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software." You don't like skype, fine. I am prety sure what it enables millions of people to do: freely communicate no matter the distance, but I don't really get what freedoms it denies. Do I lose som freedom just but installing it, or must I use it for that to take an effect?
> Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software. > Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call. It made me wonder what's free-er about an ordinary phone call. Presumably, most of the software the phone companies use is also proprietary. Does it become less non-free if somebody else runs the software? Or maybe it shifts the moral burden of using something non-free to somebody else?
It made me wonder what's free-er about an ordinary phone call.
You can use any phone that you like to place a call. You can even build your own phone. (Depending on your choice of phone you might have to rely on non-free parts like GSM voice codecs.)
You have the freedom of choosing between multiple service providers, all of which are interoperable. If you want, you can even get access to the underlying SS7 phone network and be your own provider.
Re: 25 years ago I hoped we would extend Emacs to do WYSIWG word processing
#126How about making emacs close when I hit the "close window" button on Windows 7?
Do you start emacs.exe or runemacs.exe?
Re: 25 years ago I hoped we would extend Emacs to do WYSIWG word processing
#127How about making emacs close when I hit the "close window" button on Windows 7?
> Windows 7 Found the issue.
That may very well be the problem, especially since on shutdown/logout Windows 7 always shows some items not closing, even if none are left. But emacs is about 50-50 on closing while other things always go away.
GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (i386-mingw-nt6.1.7601) of 2013-03-17 on MARVIN
Re: 25 years ago I hoped we would extend Emacs to do WYSIWG word processing
#128Re: 25 years ago I hoped we would extend Emacs to do WYSIWG word processing
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I specifically asked him if he had read the bill in question to which he was objecting, which was available on the Web, he said that he had not, because he doesn't surf the Web. He, not I, equated "surfing" with "reading documents." The impression I got from that conversation was that Stallman makes no effort to go out and find things that would be useful and of interest to him. I don't call that "surfing," but…
>I worry that Stallman is ignoring arguments that may inform his own, or even change them. Of course he is! It is called confirmation bias. It is very very strong, especially with people like Stallman who hold strong beliefs. We are all guilty of it to some extent. Here's some reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/06/23/confirmation-bias/ http://socialpsychologyeye.w…
I actually read a fascinating article about the Colbert Report saying that conservative viewers of the show thought that he was a conservative satirising a liberal satirising a conservative. Fascinating, really.
Re: 25 years ago I hoped we would extend Emacs to do WYSIWG word processing
#130Is this as staggeringly naive as it looks? Some of the people responding are steering the discussion to a layout language with a preview window. I don't know if they are doing it because they prefer to work in such a user-hostile mode (I did this for a book, in Eclipse. Ugh.), or if they think this is a more sane goal. WYSIWYG has its own issues. most users of word processors have no idea that paragraphs are objects…
a layout language with a preview window
aka digital typesetting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typesetting#Digital_era
If not quite the Correct Answer, it might be the Best Available Answer.
My mother used to be a Linotype ninja, blazing thru the sunday paper's ad inserts. The user input language was a page description language, little different from PostScript or HP's PCL (or HPGL/2). While modern systems are more accessible, I've not seen a system since that matched that concision and productivity.
I loved the precise control of WordPerfect (reveal codes) and FrameMaker (parametric styles). I can't comment on modern InDesign (stopped around version 2), but early on it was not considered a feature complete replacement for FrameMaker.
People speak highly of LaTex. I've not used it for real work.
I've done my share of UI, scenegraph, layout engines, plotter/print drivers, prepress / imposition, etc.
I gave up trying to integrate general purpose constraints systems into layouts. Too many edge cases, hard to debug. I now believe layouts heuristics should be implemented imperatively.
So I created DesignGridLayout, which captures grid based rules for UIs in a "fluent" API (aka method chaining). https://designgridlayout.java.net/examples.html (The awesome Jean-Francois Poilpret has maintained, extended the project for years.)
Though the box model sucks, I haven't yet given up on some mythical, simple scenegraphs + typography + content hybrid. I still don't know what that'll look like.