I think we're almost at the point where we all live in this secret state reading the same media and suffering the same banks. It doesn't matter what country you live in or who you vote for - the results are the same. People fought and died for this 'democracy' 70 years ago and it's rotten to the core. Every time I see a politician, I'm looking at a loser, someone who is useless and not part of my life at all. Just a mouthpiece of a failed state.
US and UK struck secret deal to allow NSA to 'unmask' Britons' personal data
41–50 of 53 posts
Re: US and UK struck secret deal to allow NSA to 'unmask' Britons' personal data
#42At this point you can't trust the government to even bother to lie to you; just a no comment, as if it's none of your fucking business. Carry on eating twinkles and let us protect you from The Bad Guys.
Wasn't there a time when people accepted the risk of random terrorism as being small, but worth it for our freedoms? I 'd prefer that over "trust me we're doing this for your (our?) own good".
At this point you can't trust the government.
Re: US and UK struck secret deal to allow NSA to 'unmask' Britons' personal data
#43At least in the Uk, there seems no democratic lever to adjust to change this. I don't know of a single national party that wants to roll back the surveillance. Following Russel Brand's interview about why there's no point in voting: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/russell... ... all parts of the establishment rallied around, saying how people had fought for years for the right, and how important…
The national identity register was scrapped after it was started, that wouldn't have happened if Labour had stayed in power. The Lib Dems were the main party opposing it, it's one of the reasons I wanted them in.
I'll be voting LibDem too. They stand up for civil liberties more than Labour or Conservative. Hell, I would vote for a party that had Ron Paul's values and I am far from being right wing. At least he would strongly fight against the erosion of civil liberties and that's the top priority for me.
Re: US and UK struck secret deal to allow NSA to 'unmask' Britons' personal data
#44At least in the Uk, there seems no democratic lever to adjust to change this. I don't know of a single national party that wants to roll back the surveillance. Following Russel Brand's interview about why there's no point in voting: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/russell... ... all parts of the establishment rallied around, saying how people had fought for years for the right, and how important…
> ... but really, what's the point? I know there are big differences between the parties, and that voting will make a difference I'm not even sure of that. How different was life and policy under Major or Blair?
Fuck all. Different figureheades and parties serving the same idea.
Re: US and UK struck secret deal to allow NSA to 'unmask' Britons' personal data
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
The national identity register was scrapped after it was started, that wouldn't have happened if Labour had stayed in power. The Lib Dems were the main party opposing it, it's one of the reasons I wanted them in.
I'll be voting LibDem too. They stand up for civil liberties more than Labour or Conservative. Hell, I would vote for a party that had Ron Paul's values and I am far from being right wing. At least he would strongly fight against the erosion of civil liberties and that's the top priority for me.
Clegg's LBC phone in/interview this morning mentioned the topic of surveillance:
Re: US and UK struck secret deal to allow NSA to 'unmask' Britons' personal data
#46At least in the Uk, there seems no democratic lever to adjust to change this. I don't know of a single national party that wants to roll back the surveillance. Following Russel Brand's interview about why there's no point in voting: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/russell... ... all parts of the establishment rallied around, saying how people had fought for years for the right, and how important…
Russel Brand is right. There's no point in voting as there's no actual representation. Political establishment serves the money. More money today than ever before.
Like with commercials, people are fooled into the electoral system and how their votes make a difference. Look at the US 2008 election. "Yes, we can" and all that. What did change fundamentally?
A problem (or, perhaps, an opportunity) with Russel Brand's message is that the only way to make voting count is to start a revolution. Today's intermingled system of politics and big money will not subside on its own.
Re: US and UK struck secret deal to allow NSA to 'unmask' Britons' personal data
#47I would normally make better points and comments on articles like this, but all I have left to say on this is: What a bunch of utter cunts.
Re: US and UK struck secret deal to allow NSA to 'unmask' Britons' personal data
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Politicians do look at how people vote. This is why UKIP has such a disproportionate influence on the policy of the current government. "Alternatives" to democracy aside, you should vote every time, even if it's for a throwaway candidate that you believe in but think will never get in.
I have trouble finding any candidates I can believe in. The only benefit (for me) of the two main parties is that their stance on any issue is widely known regardless of who the individual candidate is, so I can avoid them. I like the idea of independent MPs, but it can be hard to tell ahead of time whether the candidate is a wingnut, even with fairly careful research. I might vote, but tend to spoil the paper when I…
I was going to suggest you gather some like-minded people and run for office, but then I read "live in an area that has had an unbroken chain of conservative MPs for the last 400 years" and realized it doesn't work that way in your country :( .
At least in my country, several representatives are elected by region, so small parties can get representatives - I voted for the smallest represented party in my country, and I was even on the ballot myself :) and my representative got in - he can't do much though, but at least he makes his voice heard.
I wonder if a smart hacker can get himself elected - maybe Alexis Ohanian in the U.S. would care to run? (no idea about his political views though)
Re: US and UK struck secret deal to allow NSA to 'unmask' Britons' personal data
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Politicians do look at how people vote. This is why UKIP has such a disproportionate influence on the policy of the current government. "Alternatives" to democracy aside, you should vote every time, even if it's for a throwaway candidate that you believe in but think will never get in.
Could you expand on why it's important to vote, because at the moment I can't see it. Arguably, lots of voting has got us to where we are now. The main problem I see is that the winning party uses voting numbers to claim a mandate.I'm currently reaching the conclusion that the only way to get meaningful change is for enough people to avoid voting that any idea of mandate becomes ludicrous and the disillusion has to b…
There is a last reason to vote: use it or lose it.
I believe we're at or approaching the point where governments and politicians merely pay us lip service. This is certainly the case in surveillance.
It would be much more efficient, for them, to not have to bother with elections.
If enough people stop voting, it would be tempting for them to try to get rid of voting.
Would you rather live in your country that has voting, however badly it's degenerated, or your country without voting, governed by people who have eliminated voting because they could?
At least make them jump through this one last hoop. Maintain the vote, and it could be better one day. Without the vote, I think it would be the end.
Re: US and UK struck secret deal to allow NSA to 'unmask' Britons' personal data
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is not clear from that article how one is to distinguish intentional non-voting from apathy. It seems to me that if one wishes to make a statement of their non-vote, they need to go to the poll and submit a blank ballot, not just stay home on election day. That may be the idea here, but the article doesn't actually seem to say so. EDIT: a bit more looking around turned up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_vote…
I particularly like the idea of having a "none of the above" box on a ballot. It has two functions: a) "None of the above" is officially reported as part of the election statistics, distinguishing itself as a protest vote, compared to spoiled ballots which might be for other reasons. b) If "none of the above" wins, they have to hold the election again, but all the current candidates are prohibited from standing. What…
In the US Pres and Congressional elections, at least, we have none of the above. Vote for any third party. You know they won't win, but vote for them anyway. This is how you can cast a vote, that gets counted, against the Republicans and the Democrats both.
Write one in if there isn't one running for a particular office.
I always vote 3rd, I'm disgusted. I haven't done a write-in yet, don't know the rules and how to do it correctly so I didn't want to invalidate the rest of my ballot. But I'll start doing that to.