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Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

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Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#101

Post by V-2 »

moocowduckquack wrote: post #65
jballanc wrote: post #33

I don't think it's ever been easy to get into the US. A tour through Ellis Island will tell you as much. The difference is that, in the past, the US needed its immigrants. They built its cities and its railroads and much of the US's early industry. Later the US's immigrants were its main source of scientific advancements...but the US's relationship with its immigrants has, I think, always been strained. The differenc…

US's relationship with its immigrants has, I think, always been strained. I think the Navaho and others have been somewhat annoyed by all the pesky foreigners with their exotic christian outlook.

Were they "the US"? ;)

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#103

Post by swombat »

berntb wrote: post #87
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #67

U.S. Immigration agents are trained to look for certain traits in visitors: nervousness, unusual or inconsistent answers to questions, history of visiting certain countries. Any of these characteristics trigger an automatic escalation in the interrogation process. This individual, albeit sounding perfectly innocent, unfortunately triggered several hot buttons and the hapless agents were too unimaginative, uninformed,…

Thanks for the overview, but... I am a hard line atheist anti-idealist that don't make that much difference between islamists, socialists and astrology readers. Idealists lie to themselves and others, because they mix up their self image with their opinions -- or they are just propagandists (since they know they are correct, the target is "winning" as in convincing, not learning.) Politically, I think the US left is…

> I am a hard line atheist [...]. Idealists lie to themselves and others, because they mix up their self image with their opinions -- or they are just propagandists (since they know they are correct, the target is "winning", not learning.)

Right. No contradiction there.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#104

Post by IanDrake »

crusso wrote: post #74
alan_cx wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem there is that the US loudly and fundamentally claims to be a democracy. If we are to accept that, then we have to accept that the government embodies the will of its people. Or, seriously consider that the US is genuinely no longer a real democracy. It is a real shame, as you imply. American people have done incredible things which contribute to the world in general in a positive way, and the country its self…

the government embodies the will of its people Like most people who vote have any understanding of what the government does or much less what the consequences of those actions are. Voting choices in the US are much like religion choices and football team choices -- nonsensical tribalism at its finest.

>Voting choices in the US are much like religion choices and football team choices

This is only true because people fail to vote (or even pay attention) in the primaries.

By the time you get to the general election you get two terrible choices produced by the establishment. The result is that there is no difference between the two party candidates. Sure they're made to sound different, but policy and execution is the same.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#106

Post by berntb »

swombat wrote: post #103
berntb wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the overview, but... I am a hard line atheist anti-idealist that don't make that much difference between islamists, socialists and astrology readers. Idealists lie to themselves and others, because they mix up their self image with their opinions -- or they are just propagandists (since they know they are correct, the target is "winning" as in convincing, not learning.) Politically, I think the US left is…

> I am a hard line atheist [...]. Idealists lie to themselves and others, because they mix up their self image with their opinions -- or they are just propagandists (since they know they are correct, the target is "winning", not learning.) Right. No contradiction there.

Hey, you almost got the self irony... here is half a cookie. :-)

More seriously: There is a serious position to have -- identify with the process of getting your opinions _less_ wrong, not with a particular set of opinions. In fact, there is no contradiction.

Anyway, this is not the subject of the discussion.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#107

Post by raverbashing »

NateDad wrote: post #23
bsdetector wrote: post #19

> When I'm supposed to watch my words, I tend to say the wrong ones. No kidding. Volunteering that he was in Al Qaeda territory... to take pictures of plants. Saying he's a nihilist. Suggesting that the levees in New Orleans might break again while he's visiting. Having Jewish ancestry, but denying being Jewish because not religious. Also appears he was also traveling alone to many of these places, without any busine…

I think you're wrong, and I'm sorry that people like you are the ones working on the border. He was obviously travelling all around the world sight-seeing. He had tons of proof of that. The border patrol were paranoid and idiotic. Keeping random people out who "seem" like they might be dangerous is not going to prevent any problems. It's just going to make the rest of the world hate us more.

"He was obviously travelling all around the world sight-seeing"

This is not so obvious. This is one of the possible points of view, of course.

"He had tons of proof of that"

For example? I'm not sure other countries stamp a reason for entry like the US, it's usually an entry stamp for anything and that's it.

I'm also sympathetic to the author, but he was extremely naive. The border control doesn't want to hear about nice food or nice wildlife or other blah blah blah. Direct and cooled down answers will do. "On Vacation" is fine.

It's clear his answers (and passport stamps) rang a ton of bells.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#108

Post by sigzero »

lylejohnson wrote: post #61

When I clicked through the link to this article, a window popped up asking me to sign a petition to reinstate Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House. Given her recent vote in favor of the Patriot Act, that was an interesting warm-up act for the main article.

Pelosi is insane.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#109

Post by thaumasiotes »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #67

U.S. Immigration agents are trained to look for certain traits in visitors: nervousness, unusual or inconsistent answers to questions, history of visiting certain countries. Any of these characteristics trigger an automatic escalation in the interrogation process. This individual, albeit sounding perfectly innocent, unfortunately triggered several hot buttons and the hapless agents were too unimaginative, uninformed,…

I've done a fair amount of back-and-forth between the US and China. On my most recent entry (to the US), the phase 1 guy flagged me to have my carryon manually inspected because I took the trouble to answer his questions honestly (bizarrely, the search did not involve a search of my person, or my checked luggage, so I can't imagine what it was supposed to accomplish). That forced my mother to wait an extra hour to pick me up, so roughly midnight instead of 11:00. Lesson learned, I guess. Never be honest with customs.

For reference - white US-born citizen (well, from a california perspective); never been in trouble.

Re: Why I Will Never Go Back to the United States

#110

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

sleepyhead wrote: post #68

Had a similar problem when flying into NYC. With an Iranian visa stamp in my passport. "Why would anyone go to Iran???" the lady at the border control said. Then she wrote CTR on my immigration form (my imagination believes it means 'Check for Terrorist Record'). Then she showed it to a guy with a machine gun and he replied "Is he a fugitive or something?". Had to wait in a room to talk with some guy. I showed him my…

>"Ok you go can"

Yoda is always the coolest security guard!

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