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The Tie is Back

nytimes.com

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Re: The Tie is Back

#31

Post by ardit33 »

DaniFong wrote: post #23
ardit33 wrote: post #13

ok, people, we have to admit, the average startup guys are bunch of fugly mofos. We totally lack fashion sense, beauty (gym is just a disctraction), etc... etc... Unfortunately, we are cursed of working and being in a very male oriented industry, in which the very few females we get to interact, are not good looking at all. oh, well.....

In the wrong light, that comment could be seen as quite insulting.

There is nothing insulting. I am saying the truth. Reality is not always pretty. Go to any techie party, and you will see what I am talking about. Too bad that people just neg. for the fun of it.

Re: The Tie is Back

#32

Post by DaniFong »

ardit33 wrote: post #31
DaniFong wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the wrong light, that comment could be seen as quite insulting.

There is nothing insulting. I am saying the truth. Reality is not always pretty. Go to any techie party, and you will see what I am talking about. Too bad that people just neg. for the fun of it.

Let's see. You somehow generalized your personal experience to the entire population of technically able people. This, in addition to being incorrect, is strangely presumptuous. Who can speak for the demographics of an entire industry?

Secondly, you're calling those disagreeing with you untruthful. You're challenging not merely the validity of their view, but their experience. "Face it", you say.

Finally, you call all the girls in the industry 'not very good looking at all'. That includes me, and many of my friends, whom you've never seen. It also includes Jessica Livingston, who, if you deign to recall, is the only person working on YCombinator fulltime.

So, yeah. It's insulting. And worse, untrue. So wise up.

Re: The Tie is Back

#33

Post by ardit33 »

DaniFong wrote: post #32
ardit33 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing insulting. I am saying the truth. Reality is not always pretty. Go to any techie party, and you will see what I am talking about. Too bad that people just neg. for the fun of it.

Let's see. You somehow generalized your personal experience to the entire population of technically able people. This, in addition to being incorrect, is strangely presumptuous. Who can speak for the demographics of an entire industry? Secondly, you're calling those disagreeing with you untruthful. You're challenging not merely the validity of their view, but their experience. "Face it", you say. Finally, you call al…

Riiight Dani.

I am not generalising, I am averaging up. There is an implicity on knowing that for every group, there are people that are outside that average, but they are usually the exception, and not the norm.

As in every pool, there are people that wre good looking, and there are less good looking, but the AVERAGE tech person (girl or guy) is not that good looking. Add: lack of going to gym regulary, not dressing good at all (usually we look like just rolled out of bed), we are a fugly bunch. (every tech party I have been too, this has been the norm). I am including myself there. Even I can try to dress better, go to the gym, and look good, I seldom do, as that takes effort and my priorities are somewhere else.

You want good looking? Go work for Gap in SF, or any of the advertisment/fashion companies in NYC, and you will see that there you are implicitly REQUIRED to look good, so even if you are not that good looking, you will make it up with some good fashion sense.

As I said, my statement stays both for guys and girls. Now, add that there are so few females in our industry, (the ratio is something like 1 to 8 ) the average tech/startup guy has much much less contact with the oposite sex.

Hence all the jokes we get "Your website looks good, but when was the last time you had a date?"

And I feel my comment was totally approperiate for this thread, as we are talking about ties and fashion.

Re: The Tie is Back

#34

Post by pg »

ardit33 wrote: post #33
DaniFong wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's see. You somehow generalized your personal experience to the entire population of technically able people. This, in addition to being incorrect, is strangely presumptuous. Who can speak for the demographics of an entire industry? Secondly, you're calling those disagreeing with you untruthful. You're challenging not merely the validity of their view, but their experience. "Face it", you say. Finally, you call al…

Riiight Dani. I am not generalising, I am averaging up. There is an implicity on knowing that for every group, there are people that are outside that average, but they are usually the exception, and not the norm. As in every pool, there are people that wre good looking, and there are less good looking, but the AVERAGE tech person (girl or guy) is not that good looking. Add: lack of going to gym regulary, not dressing…

Stop wasting our pixels, you two.

Re: The Tie is Back

#35

Post by gscott »

ardit33 wrote: post #33
DaniFong wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's see. You somehow generalized your personal experience to the entire population of technically able people. This, in addition to being incorrect, is strangely presumptuous. Who can speak for the demographics of an entire industry? Secondly, you're calling those disagreeing with you untruthful. You're challenging not merely the validity of their view, but their experience. "Face it", you say. Finally, you call al…

Riiight Dani. I am not generalising, I am averaging up. There is an implicity on knowing that for every group, there are people that are outside that average, but they are usually the exception, and not the norm. As in every pool, there are people that wre good looking, and there are less good looking, but the AVERAGE tech person (girl or guy) is not that good looking. Add: lack of going to gym regulary, not dressing…

I believe the "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" show has been alerted and are on there way to the YScraper to give everyone there makeovers.

Re: The Tie is Back

#36

Post by ereldon »

nailer wrote: post #18

So many workplaces have relaxed dress for men, the best position to be in is where you don't have to wear a tie to work is to wear one. You stand out, will be socially tested by your peers for doing so, and will hopefully withstand these tests, and gain social value. Your ideas will also be noticed more, simply because you are noticed more.

have you actually worn a tie to work to be different? did it work for you?

Re: The Tie is Back

#37

Post by DaniFong »

pg wrote: post #34
ardit33 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Riiight Dani. I am not generalising, I am averaging up. There is an implicity on knowing that for every group, there are people that are outside that average, but they are usually the exception, and not the norm. As in every pool, there are people that wre good looking, and there are less good looking, but the AVERAGE tech person (girl or guy) is not that good looking. Add: lack of going to gym regulary, not dressing…

Stop wasting our pixels, you two.

I'm sorry. It's a bad habit to engage like this. Brings everything down to a bad level. I should know better. :-/

Re: The Tie is Back

#38

Post by nailer »

ereldon wrote: post #36
nailer wrote: post #18

So many workplaces have relaxed dress for men, the best position to be in is where you don't have to wear a tie to work is to wear one. You stand out, will be socially tested by your peers for doing so, and will hopefully withstand these tests, and gain social value. Your ideas will also be noticed more, simply because you are noticed more.

have you actually worn a tie to work to be different? did it work for you?

Yes. Silly people think you're non technical, but they get over it pretty quickly (I spent four years of my life walking into rooms of people twice my age to tell them about Linux, I'm used to having to prove my merit). Managerial folks think you're somehow different to your colleagues, and if you're congruent with it - ie, you let your ideas be known when most of your colleagues would rather have a quiet grumble, and say no when you mean it, they'll respect you more often. I've had a continual stream of project managers recommending me for architecture jobs to my superiors, asking for me for other projects, and a whole bunch of beer couriered to me as a work expense.

It's not how you dress that makes you, but how you are. Dressing well, however, is a good way to show people that - provided you back it up with something real.

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