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Ask HN: I'm 15, won a grant to develop a suicide prevention app, what next?

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Re: Ask HN: I'm 15, won a grant to develop a suicide prevention app, what next?

#131

Post by hosh »

Awesome! I know other folks here question whether your approach actually prevents suicide. Personally, I respect your gumption and initiative to carry this out.

I hope you get offers to work on the backend with you. If not, here are some ideas:

(1) Find a like-minded person at meetup groups. The Atlanta Ruby User Group, for example, has a contingent actively working on public good kind of apps, things more for non-profit work than for-profit work. While your local technical meetup group is a good place to start, there is nothing stopping you from emailing the ATLRUG mailing list and asking. There are other platform meetups you can try, like ones for Node.js, Erlang/Elixir, various Python groups, etc.

(2) Use the Tim Ferris method of calling up famous people. You never know. Being someone versed in JS, you could try Resig, or Katz, or the AngularJS core folks. You could also try one of the startup CEOs/CTOs you admire. I don't think someone's work should be judged on the novelty of being young, but it happens (people think, could I have pulled it off at your age?) Older folks who have amassed experience and power like teaching and mentoring young people, as it is not as threatening to one's power base as young competition. You might not necessarily get such a person to work directly with you on the code, but you're likely to get access to a network that you normally would not have access to.

(3) Scour the web for other similar competitions and contact the winners. Maybe you can trade.

Good luck!

Re: Ask HN: I'm 15, won a grant to develop a suicide prevention app, what next?

#132

Post by jackpirate »

aestra wrote: post #120
jackpirate wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I honestly can't imagine what a successful version of this app would look like from the description. A simple program available in the app store that lists local suicide prevention hotlines is the only thing reasonable I can come up with. This information is all available online, but it may be more convenient for some people if it's in the app store. Maybe there could be an add on to text this information to…

How can it be more convenient? If you Google "suicide" that information is front and center...

Google is obvious to you and me, but may not be to a teenager whose only link to the internet is through their smartphone.

Re: Ask HN: I'm 15, won a grant to develop a suicide prevention app, what next?

#133

Post by wdewind »

flippmoke wrote: post #99
Xeoncross wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the "self esteem" movement that took over United States schools after I graduated from high school may have actually INCREASED risk of suicide in the United States" Yes, "self esteem" is again putting the individual up directly in front of themselves to examine and focus on which only brings existing problems into sharp center-focus. Depression and Pride both have a common denominator in too much self-absorption.

This is one of the most common misconceptions in my opinion of depression. Depression is not caused by self absorption. Depression is not vanity, imagine someone who has been rejected by a loved one. A depressed person might think, "I was never good enough for them," while a person who is not depressed might think, "I learned a lot and will do better next time." Viewing them as selfish or self absorbed is completely…

> "I was never good enough for them."

> "I learned a lot and will do better next time."

Both of those are pretty self-absorbed (which is not the same as vane). In both scenarios you are seen as the person responsible, even though the rejection came from someone else.

Re: Ask HN: I'm 15, won a grant to develop a suicide prevention app, what next?

#134

Post by Confusion »

itistoday2 wrote: post #80
tokenadult wrote: post #36

You are working on something important, and I was glad to read (and upvote) a lot of the other comments you received, and especially the offers for pro-bono help. One comment below suggested that you read the literature (I presume that means the literature about suicide prevention) and I would second that advice. To expand that advice a bit, I'll note that Martin E. P. Seligman and some other psychologists who have s…

I second the advice to familiarize yourself with the literature, and would like to add a strong word of caution at the same time. A disclaimer: I speak out of personal experience with this topic, and I did not read most of the comments that you've already received (sorry, wish I had the time). So here's my word of caution: You must be aware that you are intentionally brainwashing yourself into a biased worldview by r…

  Suicide is a very rational reaction to life.
Contemplating suicide can be a rational reaction to introspective inquiry into the state of 'being alive'. However, committing suicide is never a rational action. There is no logical argument that leads to the conclusion that suicide must be committed, because there is no set of purely objective premises from which the argument can start. There is always a premise that introduces someone's beliefs about the value of being alive and that premise cannot be defined in rational terms. In the end it is always a circular argument: I must commit suicide, because circumstances are such that I believe I should commit suicide.

By which I say absolutely nothing about the ethics of, or the validity of emotional arguments for, committing suicide.

Re: Ask HN: I'm 15, won a grant to develop a suicide prevention app, what next?

#135

Post by aestra »

I can't believe some of the comments here. I admit I haven't read them all yet, but come on...

Background, I've been suicidal many times in my life, having spent >3 weeks in the psychiatric hospital. Been in the mental health system for YEARS. Been around many many many suicidal people in that time.

This seems so naive. You have a lot of legal issues here, and also social and ethical. You want to make sure you are cleared legally, you want to make sure you are not violating HIPPA. You want to make DAMN sure you are doing the right thing, and not encouraging the behavior you are trying to prevent. You are describing this as some kinda "social network" and there are studies that social networks can make you MORE lonely and depressed.

http://now.msn.com/innovation-of-loneliness-video-says-socia...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/margiewarrell/social-media-lon...

You want the help of a trained psychiatrist for god's sake.

You want to be damn sure you "suicide prevention" app doesn't get overwhelmed by trolls and well meaning people giving bad advice, and if it does, you aren't legally on the hook.

This is just way too big. This isn't some weekend project. This really really is serious business. Don't do it. It's way too risky.

Re: Ask HN: I'm 15, won a grant to develop a suicide prevention app, what next?

#136

Post by jsmeaton »

itistoday2 wrote: post #88
frogpelt wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously, you have strong opinions about this subject and I will try to tread carefully, but your comment reads like you are not in favor an app that attempts to assist in preventing suicide. And on this point: > To understand suicide, you have to understand wanting to kill yourself, and you cannot understand this intellectually, you have to have experienced it yourself. Not all people who attempt suicide have the s…

> Not all people who attempt suicide have the same mindset. I know people who have attempted suicide (one guy's face is disfigured due to a self-inflicted gun shot) and they do not even remotely suggest that suicide could possibly be anything but bad. Yes, that's a great point. There are a variety of viewpoints to consider, and it's important to understand the context in which they all occur. I'm sure the person you'…

> I'm sure the person you're referring to did not have that opinion a few moments before pulling the trigger, otherwise he wouldn't have done it

But I think that's exactly where suicide and euthanasia are different, where you claim they are synonyms. Euthanasia is for people that are suffering, in pain, and cannot get better. Suicide, in the context of depression and other mental illnesses, is for people that are suffering, in pain, and can get better.

Not to suggest that the suffering or pain is any different, but that the available treatments are very much different. I would argue that your points of view are more akin to terrorism and/or sadist, because you're peddling the kind of information that leads these people to truly believe that they can't get better.

And that's why a project, that the OP is attempting, is virtuous IMO. I agree with other commenters here that there are some very very important considerations though, and it should not just be released onto the world without very careful scrutiny, both legal and medical.

Re: Ask HN: I'm 15, won a grant to develop a suicide prevention app, what next?

#137

Post by xenophanes »

What I would recommend next is recognizing that suicide is a complicated and controversial issue, and there are differing attitudes and approaches towards it. Your app, like it or not, will be opinionated. Have informed opinions. For example, read this:

http://www.amazon.com/Fatal-Freedom-Ethics-Politics-Suicide/...

If you disagree, fine, but have an informed opinion.

Re: Ask HN: I'm 15, won a grant to develop a suicide prevention app, what next?

#138

Post by itistoday2 »

groby_b wrote: post #108
itistoday2 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second the advice to familiarize yourself with the literature, and would like to add a strong word of caution at the same time. A disclaimer: I speak out of personal experience with this topic, and I did not read most of the comments that you've already received (sorry, wish I had the time). So here's my word of caution: You must be aware that you are intentionally brainwashing yourself into a biased worldview by r…

I'll play devil's advocate to your devil's advocate, then. You are a callous human being who encourages countless needless deaths to justify your personal experiences, especially deaths of teenagers. So, now that we've got the hyperbole and name-calling out of the way: Many suicides are based on a misguided notion that the suffering is endless an interminable. I happen to actually support assisted suicide and "the ri…

I'll play devil's advocate to your devil's advocate, then. You are a callous human being who encourages countless needless deaths to justify your personal experiences, especially deaths of teenagers.

Touché, I agree the hyperbole was unnecessary and over the top (probably got generated by some emotional trigger that I didn't do a good job of moderating). Just to clarify though, I _don't_ "encourage countless needless deaths".

If an app or a book convinces you to not commit suicide, the likelihood is high that what you're experiencing is strong emotional pain that is quite likely to subside.

I agree with this and the rest of your comment. :)

Re: Ask HN: I'm 15, won a grant to develop a suicide prevention app, what next?

#139

Post by itistoday2 »

DanBC wrote: post #111
itistoday2 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second the advice to familiarize yourself with the literature, and would like to add a strong word of caution at the same time. A disclaimer: I speak out of personal experience with this topic, and I did not read most of the comments that you've already received (sorry, wish I had the time). So here's my word of caution: You must be aware that you are intentionally brainwashing yourself into a biased worldview by r…

FFS, this is not an anti-euthanasia project. Euthanasia is distinct from suicide, and is usually treated as such by people campaigning or working in the area. > For your project, I will throw a devil's advocate accusation at you, and call you, and anyone in this thread who supports your cause, a terrorist and/or sadist. I will accuse you of in fact not helping people, but misguidedly (due to complete and utter ignora…

> FFS, this is not an anti-euthanasia project.

Indeed. I didn't say or think that it was.

> Euthanasia is distinct from suicide, and is usually treated as such by people campaigning or working in the area.

Yes, they treat it differently and invent various criteria and judgements on what is and isn't an acceptable reason to commit suicide.

Frankly, it's all a mis-mash of opinions and cultural beliefs. If you were in Japan a few centuries ago, you'd think it was perfectly rational and reasonable to gut yourself just because you shamed yourself (or your family/lord).

And frankly, you'd be just as right about that opinion as the folks working in Euthanasia are about theirs today.

>How does this help discussion?

The hyperbole doesn't help (I addressed this in another reply to someone else), but there was a point there that just wasn't stated very eloquently, and that is that our present culture (in the United States and many other places) does, many times, actually result in people suffering more than they otherwise should, were suicide/euthanasia a more normalized and talked about practice.

Re: Ask HN: I'm 15, won a grant to develop a suicide prevention app, what next?

#140

Post by aestra »

saturdayplace wrote: post #100
ancarda wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does he have any experience with suicides? Has he lost anyone or felt suicidal himself? People who have know how difficult it is. The app was described as a "social network". As someone who has experience with suicide (both from my perspective and from losing people), I have to question what a difference that will make. How exactly does it work? If he can't explain, perhaps a mockup of the UI might answer a lot of qu…

So, it's probably not realistic to assume this particular app will help. The chance that it will make an actual difference is probably pretty low. Is that reason enough to dismiss the idea? Or to dismiss "apps" entirely as a possible tool for helping suicidal people? I said this below, but unless suicide is an area where you have more potential to cause harm than to do good, it seems like a worthwhile direction to sp…

>but unless suicide is an area where you have more potential to cause harm than to do good, it seems like a worthwhile direction to spend resources.

Um, yes, you have serious potential to cause serious harm.

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