Dear Googles: Stop asking • Hacker News Board

Re: Dear Googles: Stop asking

#211

Post by ksk » Sun, Nov 17, 2013, 5:32 AM UTC

davidgerard wrote: post #106

greenyoda wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google does not get the credit for making the Internet searchable; there were some pretty decent search engines, like AltaVista, before Google came along. Google made an incremental improvement in search algorithms and figured out how to make search very profitable.

I think you're wrong there. I remember using the web back then. Search sucked before Google. Altavista was a bit better than what came before it, but Google really was the first search engine that was any bloody good at all . The PageRank algorithm basically cracked the search problem. Making money actually came years later. Google used the method of "get a zillion users and we'll figure out money later."

I don't think PageRank made any difference at all. Its the other thing you mentioned - the zillions of users.

A huge data set mapping the search terms -> clicks is what made all the difference IMO.

Re: Dear Googles: Stop asking

#212

Post by MichaelGG » Sun, Nov 17, 2013, 5:58 AM UTC

shittyanalogy wrote: post #180

MichaelGG wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that in general this helps, and most of Google's account security energy is going towards helping average users deal with basic security. Microsoft offers a similar option (you must choose to use a phone, or a secret question, I think). But interestingly, phone auth changes as your account becomes more valuable. If your Google account unlocks everything you have, then a targeted stealing of your phone nu…

No one is saying that it's fool proof or totally secure. It's just an easy, mostly reliable way to automate the process. If you develop a way to recover people's email accounts that is simple for consumers, requires no human intervention, and is more secure than phone numbers, patent it and make millions. Seriously, this is a hard problem to solve and companies will gladly pay you for a better solution.

That's what I'm saying. It's great for most of their users, but as Google becomes more important, it provides an easy single-point-of-failure you can use to completely take over someone's ID.

Re: Dear Googles: Stop asking

#213

Post by rsync » Sun, Nov 17, 2013, 6:14 AM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #176

greenyoda wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I remember correctly, AltaVista had a pretty sophisticated advanced search mode where you could string together search terms with Boolean operators (and/or/not). And I'm sure that AltaVista had some kind of metric of "site quality" before PageRank came along. For example, you could judge how "important" a site is by how often people click on a search result to go there, or how big they are (number of URLs from tha…

I was also using AltaVista back in early 2000. Their advanced search method you mention is the perfect example of complicated UI that fails to function properly, putting the blame on the user. I switched to Google after being frustrated that I wasn't finding something while at an Internet Cafe, I then saw Google's logo on somebody else's screen and gave it a try. Google was better by an order of magnitude. Your reaso…

... and now we have completely useless and inaccurate results from google just about every time you search.

There isn't an hour that goes by that I don't search for a few keywords ... like ... freebsd openvpn push ... and guess what ? Results 1 and 3 for that query do not contain the word push.

Every day I am running into this and every day I miss altavista.

Re: Dear Googles: Stop asking

#214

Post by grimman » Sun, Nov 17, 2013, 6:44 AM UTC

vdaniuk wrote: post #168

Silhouette wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That a bad plan comes from a famous person doesn't make it any less of a bad plan. In the spirit of Google: +1 for people and +2 for companies now actively moving away from almost all Google properties because they're becoming so unpleasant and/or unproductive to use. I know they're all about being data driven and running empirical tests: that's why the {expletive deleted} page moves around every time I come back and…

Do you have any proof that significant number of people are moving away from almost all Google properties? This sounds very anecdotal.

Another anecdote here, but I jumped the GOOG ship long ago and apart from a very minor bump (adjusting to DDG) it was painless too. Sure, for a couple of days when I was unhappy with results I went back to Google, but they were no better. And sure, some Gmail features are great. But on the whole, they're not irreplaceable, and I reckon they need to take better care of their customers than they currently are.

Re: Dear Googles: Stop asking

#215

Post by nostrademons » Sun, Nov 17, 2013, 6:59 AM UTC

rsync wrote: post #213

bad_user wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was also using AltaVista back in early 2000. Their advanced search method you mention is the perfect example of complicated UI that fails to function properly, putting the blame on the user. I switched to Google after being frustrated that I wasn't finding something while at an Internet Cafe, I then saw Google's logo on somebody else's screen and gave it a try. Google was better by an order of magnitude. Your reaso…

... and now we have completely useless and inaccurate results from google just about every time you search . There isn't an hour that goes by that I don't search for a few keywords ... like ... freebsd openvpn push ... and guess what ? Results 1 and 3 for that query do not contain the word push . Every day I am running into this and every day I miss altavista.

Try verbatim mode:

https://www.google.com/search?q=freebsd+openvpn+push&tbs=li:...

Re: Dear Googles: Stop asking

#216

Post by MrBra » Sun, Nov 17, 2013, 6:59 AM UTC

I am very positive this would be the perfect moment to start a kickstarer funded youtube clone! Yea, glad I inspired your next big project, thank me later! (But please don't forget to... I know you won't if you are a good hacker. I am not in the position to dedicate any time/resources to this project. Please ask me for some contact info when you are sure you will be diving into this. Please do it, and... good luck!)

Re: Dear Googles: Stop asking

#217

Post by moca » Sun, Nov 17, 2013, 7:20 AM UTC

The answer is pretty simple: the Google+ deciders don't get social. They think very differently from their users and they refused to listen for past 2-3 years.

Re: Dear Googles: Stop asking

#218

Post by tjsnyder » Sun, Nov 17, 2013, 7:24 AM UTC

PeterisP wrote: post #167

alextingle wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't give my phone number to anybody who doesn't need it. Lots of places ask/demand it, but it's always actually optional. There's no law that says you have to have a phone, after all. So, there's no way I'm going to give up my phone number in exchange for a log-in on a free web-site.

If I knew your phone number, then I already gave it to Google and linked it to your real name, email, employer and other contact info - just so that my contact books sync between my devices, and your picture shows up next to your name on my phone. Ah, if you hadn't put up your picture, my phone uploaded the picture I had, and linked to your name. Just so that you know. No need to worry about giving up what's already…

Finally a reasonable response.

Re: Dear Googles: Stop asking

#219

Post by dredmorbius » Sun, Nov 17, 2013, 7:56 AM UTC

charlus wrote: post #12

I complied with everything they ask and they no longer bug me really. But still Google+ is unusable, it constantly uses 40% of my processor just to have that tab open in Chrome/Linux. Facebook runs lovely in comparison.

The size of the DOM is one of many complaints I've had with the service. It effectively made me choose between one of two browsers, and limits the number of tabs I can open on the site (for resource exhaustion), though opening new tabs to go to the proper context is the only way to accomplish many tasks.

In all, a long litany of frustrations.

Re: Dear Googles: Stop asking

#220

Post by dredmorbius » Sun, Nov 17, 2013, 7:59 AM UTC

lignuist wrote: post #107

Dear Hacker: Stop signing up at Google, Facebook, Yahoo, Twitter and all the other personal data collection services, if you care about your privacy. I'm living a happy life without such accounts, and so can you.

As it turns out, the only one of those many services I have an account with was Google, and the one I use most often is pseudonymous.

My clearly stated preference was to not link my pseudonymous identities on G+ and YouTube, as well as not to link either to real-world identifiers. I'd actually posted on the custom URL issue (phone number required) a few weeks back. That identifier then turned out to show up as a reverse-lookup to your G+ account. There are people who know me IRL and have my phone number. I'd prefer they did not identify it with my G+ identity.