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Many PS4 units dead on arrival

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Re: Many PS4 units dead on arrival

#61

Post by Legion »

city41 wrote: post #39
stedaniels wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how many years did it take for Microsoft to come to that decision? Exactly.

The RROD was really crappy, for sure. But ultimately MS did do do the right thing, or at least they tried . On the other hand, Sony has never stood behind their consoles. From the PS1 cd drive wearing out prematurely [0], to the PSP's analog nub falling off[1] to PS2 disc read errors [2] to... on and on. Sony has never once helped the consumer in these situations. For most Playstation owners, buying multiple systems…

Don't forget the original PSP had an extremely high rate of stuck pixels in their displays.

And while I have had multiple RRODs with the 360, I have all working 360s via replacement, while my YLOD (Yellow Light of Death) PS3 is dead without replacement.

Re: Many PS4 units dead on arrival

#62

Post by whalesalad »

Apparently it's an overheating issue[0]. The 'red line of death' is not a sign that your PS4 is dead, but a sign that it needs to shut down to cool off.

If that is happening immediately on boot, then hopefully the temp sensor or overall temp system is flawed and can be fixed either by a Sony patch or really quickly in their manufacturing process. Hard to believe something like that slipped through the cracks.

Reminds me of Dave Baggett's recent story[1] about how when you jiggled a controller stick during save, cross-talk on the motherboard would end up causing your memory card to become completely erased. I'm no EE but I wonder if there is something really strange at play here ... like perhaps old wiring in your home. I only say this because I can't imagine a really straightforward reason for this to be happening, unless they have a bad batch of temp sensors?

Fortunately iFixit has taken apart the PS4 already, so we can take a look inside the chassis[2]. There's a lot of talk there on the 'revolutionary' cooling system. There's a giant fan/heatsink combination for the CPU, and the exhaust air seems to flow over the PSU to cool it passively. There's another fan beneath the motherboard which looks pretty small.

Could also be a case of left-over tape or manufacturing material, like we saw with some of the Macbooks coming off the assembly line. There was a piece of plastic/tape coviering the exhaust vent that caused the fans to quickly go full speed and the system to get real hot. I can't find a reference to it anywhere though.

In other news, I'm anxiously awaiting my Xbox One pre-order and hope that it doesn't have any of the same issues :)

0. http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps4/basic/partnam...

1. http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/DaveBaggett/20131031/203788/M...

2. http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/PlayStation+4+Teardown/19493

Re: Many PS4 units dead on arrival

#63

Post by silencio »

jlgreco wrote: post #20
floatingatoll wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As of right now, there are 323 1-star reviews. Sony sold "81,639" PS3 consoles on that unit's launch day. So if Amazon shipped 81,639 PS 4 consoles, this would be a failure rate of 4.0 units per 1000, or 0.4%. Microsoft noted at one point during the Xbox 360 launch that the industry standard failure rate was between 3 and 5%. Presuming that same 3-5% is the failure rate for the PS4, and that 100% of DOA customers pos…

Re: 'Industry standard' error rate. I admittedly haven't worked in manufacturing at anything even resembling that scale, but I did spend a summer working for a company that assembled, sold, and installed PCs to local small businesses and (particularly) school districts. A 4-5% failure rate, at the point of installation, would have been absolutely inconceivable in that job. Sure, there were lots of failures, most caus…

Not that this happened with my fiancé's PS4, but OnTrac (a CA/NV? local carrier that Amazon often uses) has employees with an infuriating habit of throwing packages over gates.

And I don't mean soft padded envelopes that really won't suffer from being thrown over the gate, but boxes including (from the last six months) computer equipment, a sunrise alarm clock, glass canning jars, bottles containing liquids, and more. hurled about 8 feet (to clear the gate) and down onto the stone behind it. The place I lived at before, they threw a box hard enough to leave a mark on the door. Then I have to waste my time complaining to OnTrac and Amazon about the broken glass and non-functioning equipment and return and replace it hoping the next delivery guy doesn't screw it up. Some days I feel like Amazon uses too much padding for something so trivial, and then I realize I have to deal with OnTrac and then there cannot be enough padding for my packages.

I will not be surprised at all if the DOA rate takes into account factors like that.

Re: Many PS4 units dead on arrival

#64

Post by Aloisius »

silencio wrote: post #63
jlgreco wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: 'Industry standard' error rate. I admittedly haven't worked in manufacturing at anything even resembling that scale, but I did spend a summer working for a company that assembled, sold, and installed PCs to local small businesses and (particularly) school districts. A 4-5% failure rate, at the point of installation, would have been absolutely inconceivable in that job. Sure, there were lots of failures, most caus…

Not that this happened with my fiancé's PS4, but OnTrac (a CA/NV? local carrier that Amazon often uses) has employees with an infuriating habit of throwing packages over gates. And I don't mean soft padded envelopes that really won't suffer from being thrown over the gate, but boxes including (from the last six months) computer equipment, a sunrise alarm clock, glass canning jars, bottles containing liquids, and more…

OnTrac likes to just leave packages in front of my door. On Market Street in San Francisco and mark the packages signed by "Door." Once in a while they'll ring the doorbell, but often I'll just find it there. So far, no one has stolen anything, but boy does it make me nervous.

Re: Many PS4 units dead on arrival

#65

Post by lostlogin »

whalesalad wrote: post #62

Apparently it's an overheating issue[0]. The 'red line of death' is not a sign that your PS4 is dead, but a sign that it needs to shut down to cool off. If that is happening immediately on boot, then hopefully the temp sensor or overall temp system is flawed and can be fixed either by a Sony patch or really quickly in their manufacturing process. Hard to believe something like that slipped through the cracks. Reminds…

I laughed at this due to the bad home wiring thing. I agree this may be possible, however its what my ISP would always say regarding crap speeds. In a fit of rage I paid someone to cat 6 the house - everything we own is brand new. The way we are running it, it is one wire from the side of the house to the router, no joins, shortest possible run, away from all power cables and makes crossings at appropriate angles. No change to connection speed. Credit to them I suppose as they backed down fast after the next use of the "home wiring" line was met with me asking if they wanted the paperwork on the specs of the new wiring that had made zero discernible difference.

Re: Many PS4 units dead on arrival

#66

Post by arh68 »

mashmac2 wrote: post #53
mcpherrinm wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the 5 star system on Amazon useful. I don't always look at the average rating, but rather the distribution graph of ratings. For example, one common shape looks like this: 5 stars: ||||||||||| 4 stars: |||||||| 3 stars: |||| 2 stars: || 1 star: ||||||| There's way more 1 star than 2 or 3. That usually indicates the product shows up DOA for a lot of people, or is otherwise probabilistically totally unsuitable f…

This would make a fascinating study of reliability - can you determine statistically if a product will be reliable based on rating distribution. You could study Amazon, App Store ratings, etc. Cool insight!

I wouldn't take any rating metric seriously unless it accounted for how long they've owned it. Plus there's the difference between "I've owned 12 lawnmowers and this one's pretty okay, only broke down after 1.5yrs, 3 stars" and "this is my first lawnmower, used it once, it's amazing, never going back to cutting my lawn with scissors, 5 stars". Plus niche sites sometimes have better reviews for the same products (newegg).

All that said, there is information to be harvested in some of these reviews.

Re: Many PS4 units dead on arrival

#68

Post by Nerdfest »

spaux wrote: post #15
floatingatoll wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As of right now, there are 323 1-star reviews. Sony sold "81,639" PS3 consoles on that unit's launch day. So if Amazon shipped 81,639 PS 4 consoles, this would be a failure rate of 4.0 units per 1000, or 0.4%. Microsoft noted at one point during the Xbox 360 launch that the industry standard failure rate was between 3 and 5%. Presuming that same 3-5% is the failure rate for the PS4, and that 100% of DOA customers pos…

I'm more upset by the way they are handling it, it looks like they aren't going to replace them, but try to fix them. Anyone who's sent an RROD xbox (I haven't) knows the pain that will come with that. You'll see your PS4 again in a few weeks.

I had the RROD with an XBox and they were _very_ quick getting it back. I think it was a couple of days. It's still an inconvenience, but it was also after more than a year of use.

Ctl-Alt-Del is referring to this as the "Pulsing Blue Dick-Punch of Death". I think everyone should do everything they can to spread that term. It's too good to pass up.

Re: Many PS4 units dead on arrival

#69

Post by silencio »

Aloisius wrote: post #64
silencio wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that this happened with my fiancé's PS4, but OnTrac (a CA/NV? local carrier that Amazon often uses) has employees with an infuriating habit of throwing packages over gates. And I don't mean soft padded envelopes that really won't suffer from being thrown over the gate, but boxes including (from the last six months) computer equipment, a sunrise alarm clock, glass canning jars, bottles containing liquids, and more…

OnTrac likes to just leave packages in front of my door. On Market Street in San Francisco and mark the packages signed by "Door." Once in a while they'll ring the doorbell, but often I'll just find it there. So far, no one has stolen anything, but boy does it make me nervous.

Oh man. I live on Market too. OnTrac has done that same exact thing before, and sometimes I only discover it because someone passing on the street or a neighbor rings my doorbell to let me know I have a box outside. They also don't seem to be able to read, as they will accidentally deliver packages to xx30 when we're xx20 and vice versa.

I hate them so much. I go out of my way to leave terrible feedback for shipping on every OnTrac package I get at this point. Their reps keep telling me they're not going to do it any more and still it's such terrible service that I would cancel Prime membership if it wasn't for most packages being delivered by UPS/FedEx/USPS.

Re: Many PS4 units dead on arrival

#70

Post by bmelton »

lucisferre wrote: post #21
floatingatoll wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As of right now, there are 323 1-star reviews. Sony sold "81,639" PS3 consoles on that unit's launch day. So if Amazon shipped 81,639 PS 4 consoles, this would be a failure rate of 4.0 units per 1000, or 0.4%. Microsoft noted at one point during the Xbox 360 launch that the industry standard failure rate was between 3 and 5%. Presuming that same 3-5% is the failure rate for the PS4, and that 100% of DOA customers pos…

You're also assuming everyone with a dead unit bothered to post a review

I'd say that the distribution is likely that most of the people with a dead unit posted reviews, while most of the people who received a working unit have not (and are likely still playing it).

People are far more likely to complain than to praise, and a dead unit arriving for a fairly expensive hot commodity is definitely cause for complaint, especially for something people are so passionate about as a PS4.

I'd be eager to see how many of those low ratings were due to people who took the day off to play it and couldn't.

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