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A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

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Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#421

Post by rayiner »

bradleyjg wrote: post #420
michaelt wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be less biased to show statistics for the kind of people sentenced under the three strikes law, but that wouldn't tug the heart strings as much. Perhaps we could aspire to have a law that works right in outlier cases, not just on average?

The biggest problem with broad judicial discretion is that you get wildly varying outcomes with identical facts depending on which judge you get and even what kind of mood he's in. If anything the system still has too much discretion (in the hands of police and prosecutors) that lead predictably to discriminatory outcomes.

The problem with restricting judicial discretion is that a judge always has a living breathing person in front of him or her, and a sentencing committee never does. This leads to inflated sentences across the board.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#423

Post by Mithaldu »

Daniel_Newby wrote: post #357
w0utert wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The primary way prisons reduce crime is by people who commit crimes. You realize there's a virtually unlimited supply of people that could potentially qualify to be locked up because they are criminal for violating some more or less arbitrary law, right? Are you proposing locking up each and every one of them to get to a crime-less nirvana where all criminals are behind bars, and everyone outside is perfectly pure…

There is not an unlimited supply of potential prisoners. As wmil says, imprisonable crimes are generally those arising from poor impulse control and low intelligence. (If you want to learn more, Russell Barkley has some informative books on the connection between brain executive function, intelligence, and life outcomes.) If we made wearing socks a three-strikes-eligible law, the same people would go to prison. Norma…

Proclaiming theories as fact is not a very nice way to proceed in an argument.

That said, please consider a counter-theory to your theory: Due to the fact that many people imprisoned for long terms do end up obtaining their GED and one or more vocations, it seems quite probably that american criminal law is a test of education more than one of genetic factors.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#424

Post by was_hellbanned »

enko wrote: post #360
was_hellbanned wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take some of your money and travel. Go to Cambodia and don't be shy with your cash. Visit the landmine museum, do some crying, and see how the resilient people are (slowly) making a comeback. Buy all the trinkets and crap off the swarming children. Hire a guide. Stimulate their local economy, then come back with a greater appreciation of everything in your life. Vote (I suggest independent, since mainstream are diffe…

> Buy all the trinkets and crap off the swarming children Oh FFS, don't do that, it just encourages them to treat visiting whiteys as walking ATMs, which is bad for their tourism industry long-term. Stay at hotels, eat at restaurants, take taxis, but don't encourage the obnoxious hawkers, no matter how young they are.

> Stay at hotels, eat at restaurants

So, you only want your money going to the wealthier families, many of which are foreign?

Street hawkers may be annoying, but they also represent the most basic form of entrepreneurial spirit.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#425

Post by bullseye »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #47

My thoughts on the best and the worst: > Anthony Jackson has a sixth-grade education and worked as a cook. He was convicted of burglary for stealing a wallet from a Myrtle Beach hotel room when he was 44 years old. According to prosecutors, he woke two vacationing golfers as he entered the room and stole a wallet, then pretended to be a security guard and ran away. Police arrested him when he tried to use the stolen…

> I don't understand this one at all.

I suspect it had something to do with driving a "company vehicle" to Louisiana from Florida, without telling the actual owner of the vehicle. There are some details missing obviously.

His prior convictions were armed robbery, negligent homicide, and issuing worthless checks. According to the ACLU, the docket number for the LA court of appeals is supposedly: 2000-KA-2117. I couldn't find anything on it though.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#426

Post by EpicEng »

mgkimsal wrote: post #400
silverbax88 wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a massive 7 inch scar across my face from when a drunk driver plowed into our car when I was 8 years old. I had over 100 stitches in my head and my face was a criss cross of zipper scars for years. The only thing that saved my life was that I was reading a book when we were struck - the book literally saved my life by blocking the glass from slashing my throat. So, yea, murder. That's how serious DUI (or tex…

But... murder implies intent. The driver did not get in the car to say "I'm going to try to kill silverbax88", or even "I'm going to try to kill someone".

And why the hell should intent matter? It's the outcome that is relevant. My grandfather was killed by a perpetual drunk driver. I don't give a shit what his intent was, he obviously had no regard for the safety of the innocents he was putting at risk. He deserves to rot in prison.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#427

Post by anonymouz »

enko wrote: post #381
anonymouz wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Life imprisonment is an amazingly harsh and expensive over-punishment for a stupid but usually non-malicious crime. Then again, death is an amazingly harsh and expensive punishment for an innocent who happens to get killed in a driving accident with somebody who's drunk... That said, attempted murder doesn't really fit. Attempted Manslaughter or something like criminal negligence (of the sort that endangers people'…

Like I replied to someone else, what do you do about all those innocents who get killed in a driving accident with someone who's not drunk? That kind of ruins your simplistic little moral diorama, doesn't it?

While the outcome is a tragedy in either case, there is a significant difference in whether it was truly an accident, or if one of the parties involved in the accident willfully and knowingly significantly increased the chances of an accident by, say, being drunk or texting while driving.

As a society we realize that certain risks will always remain, and due to bad luck accidents will always happen: We accept that and live with that. What we do not accept is behavior which unnecessarily endangers a person's life. It's perfectly reasonable from a moral point of view to hold people accountable in proportion to how reckless they are acting.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#428

Post by mgkimsal »

EpicEng wrote: post #426
mgkimsal wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But... murder implies intent. The driver did not get in the car to say "I'm going to try to kill silverbax88", or even "I'm going to try to kill someone".

And why the hell should intent matter? It's the outcome that is relevant. My grandfather was killed by a perpetual drunk driver. I don't give a shit what his intent was, he obviously had no regard for the safety of the innocents he was putting at risk. He deserves to rot in prison.

repeat offenses should be factored in to sentencing and charges just as much as intent. regardless of your particular situation, our legal system (and most) have the concept of intent built in (manslaughter vs murder, etc.)

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#429

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

silverbax88 wrote: post #419
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy makes some good points about the unfairness of how DUI suspects are treated: (full disclosure, he is a criminal defense atty) http://www.duicentral.com/dui/the-dui-exception/ TL;DR Breathalyzers are based on dubious science, system is unfairly tilted in favor of conviction. Guilt is presumed & punishment issued even before trial.

Fantastic. I wish they were put behind bars even longer. I have no sympathy for people who drink and drive, and no sympathy for people who text and drive. I cannot tolerate anyone who would plow around our roads in a 2,000 pound bullet and either be drunk or looking at their phone.

Stiffer penalties before conviction? Easier convictions? How about roadside hangings? You can use the tow truck!

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#430

Post by nhangen »

EliRivers wrote: post #403
nhangen wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding me? What do you want to do instead, cut his hand off? If we have to pay to keep a criminal like this off the street, then I'm OK with that. We're paying for protection. Not to mention, there's lots that could go wrong with lacking the 'impulse control' to enter someone's hotel room.

Are you kidding me? What do you want to do instead, cut his hand off? The sheer lack of imagination and knowledge you exhibit is astonishing. If I don't think it's smart to imprison him, I must want to cut his hand off? Let me guess; you're a US citizen and you don't travel much, so all you've ever seen regarding prison policy is identical US politicians posturing over who can be more "tough on crime"?

My point is that you are overly quick to criticize, but very slow to present alternatives. Let's hear it. What do you suggest?
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