A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what? • Hacker News Board

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#371

Post by CurtMonash » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 4:57 PM UTC

fleitz wrote: post #175

cbaker wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is the US, we're allowed to criticize the government. If you're unhappy with that, maybe you'd like to move to North Korea, China, or any of those other countries where people like you are allowed to shut down critical thinking.

Didn't Snowden have to flee to China and then Russia so he could criticize his government with out fear of summary execution?

I'm a huge fan of what Snowden did, but that's not a fair summary at all.

He fled out of fear of long-term incarceration, for actions that ordinarily would indeed deserve such harsh sentences.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#372

Post by heynk » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 4:57 PM UTC

enko wrote: post #360

was_hellbanned wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take some of your money and travel. Go to Cambodia and don't be shy with your cash. Visit the landmine museum, do some crying, and see how the resilient people are (slowly) making a comeback. Buy all the trinkets and crap off the swarming children. Hire a guide. Stimulate their local economy, then come back with a greater appreciation of everything in your life. Vote (I suggest independent, since mainstream are diffe…

> Buy all the trinkets and crap off the swarming children Oh FFS, don't do that, it just encourages them to treat visiting whiteys as walking ATMs, which is bad for their tourism industry long-term. Stay at hotels, eat at restaurants, take taxis, but don't encourage the obnoxious hawkers, no matter how young they are.

Would you advocate for the same 'top-down' approach to stimulating the economy in the US or another developed country? I think the concept of 'hawkers' could be easily applied to startups. Do you believe a good consumer should be supporting big corporations or fledgling startups? I'm just genuinely curious of your position and if you think the analogy applies in the first world.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#373

Post by protomyth » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 4:57 PM UTC

jackpirate wrote: post #116

protomyth wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check the CDC website, it has the stats. Violent crime has been in decline in the US since the 1970s. (Down voted for pointing out where to get the stats - very funny - must be DOJ folks)

Everyone agrees that violent crime is in decline. But the cause is a hotly disputed issue. I personally don't find compelling the idea that tough on crime laws are the cause.

Well, quite a lot of politicians and pundits seem to think otherwise. It is getting a bit tiresome. Also, I was responding to someone who wanted a citation of the stats.

Freakanomics has a long section on it that contradicts Gladwell and I am inclined to believe the Freakanomics since they back it up with stats.

This isn't scientific but It just seems like the 70's had a very chaotic vibe with a lot of external stuff hitting the US. The economy wasn't strong and we were going into a massive transition (factory -> office). Nixon (scandal & economy) and Carter (personified weak) didn't help a whole lot. A lot of in decline thinking causes a lot of unrest and crime.

I would rank most tough crime laws as a cause not a cure.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#374

Post by protomyth » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 4:58 PM UTC

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #58

protomyth wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check the CDC website, it has the stats. Violent crime has been in decline in the US since the 1970s. (Down voted for pointing out where to get the stats - very funny - must be DOJ folks)

Down voted for pointing out where to get the stats Probably best to just assume it was an accident. I've done it more than once on mobile.

I wish the up arrow was bigger and the down arrow was moved after the [link]. It would save a lot of hassle and provide a guidance that up is nicer than down.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#375

Post by reginaldjcooper » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 5:03 PM UTC

enko wrote: post #349

reginaldjcooper wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple DUIs do deserve a severe punishment IMO, because that is attempted murder basically and they are a danger to the public. The rest I agree are ridiculous. Huffing drugs three times does not deserve permanent incarceration.

> that is attempted murder basically Oh come on. I've lost my license for what you'd call DUI - made a stupid decision to drive the 1.5km back home from a pub, got a 1 year ban and a hefty fine. Yes, it was a stupid thing to do and I deserve what I got, but attempted murder ? Don't be ridiculous. At most repeated DUI is criminal negligence, and negligence on the part of whomever supplied the offender with the vehicle…

It's not negligence because you are an active participant. But, ok, let's meet in the middle and call it attempted manslaughter because you had no mens rea.

The goal of this idea is to encourage you to not attempt manslaughter with your vehicle, so if you were faced with life imprisonment perhaps you would think long and hard before you do it the third time.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#376

Post by protomyth » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 5:05 PM UTC

itchitawa wrote: post #144

protomyth wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This 3 strikes law reeks of injustice. I too am fine with certain violent offenders spending life behind bars, but this is just plain stupid and frankly not cost effective[1]. Let's save the jail space for murders, pedophiles, rapists, and violent offenders then put money into programs to rehabilitate folks. 1) I still get mad when I hear other small government folks who are ok with this crap. I'm against the death p…

Please don't lump pedophiles in with murderers. Many of them are in prison simply for downloading a file from the internet. In some cases, the content is perfectly legal and harmless but was edited to be sexually suggestive and the people caught with it end up in prison. That's not to say some don't actually abuse children, but many do not.

Sorry, let be clarify, when I say pedophiles (as opposed to some of these "sex offenders"[1]), I mean adults who molest children. Since I don't believe (although courts seem to think the other way) that lists after release are constitutional, I am one of those that believe dangerous people need to stay in jail. Those people need to serve a long, long time.

I am not up on the psychology of adults who look at suggestive pictures of children, but I don't think that is healthy.

1) some 17 or 18 year old having consensual sex with their 14 to 17 year old partner is not something I count. That should be a parents discussion and not the courts. 100 years ago, that was marriage age.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#377

Post by anu_gupta » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 5:06 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #313

anu_gupta wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Privatizing prisons generally reduce the financial incentive to incarcerate more people. That made me laugh - thanks :)

Such a well reasoned counterargument.

Not sure why you need to be sarcastic. It made me laugh, so I was expressing thanks for bringing some humour into my day.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#378

Post by enko » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 5:11 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #366

enko wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that is attempted murder basically Oh come on. I've lost my license for what you'd call DUI - made a stupid decision to drive the 1.5km back home from a pub, got a 1 year ban and a hefty fine. Yes, it was a stupid thing to do and I deserve what I got, but attempted murder ? Don't be ridiculous. At most repeated DUI is criminal negligence, and negligence on the part of whomever supplied the offender with the vehicle…

Yeah, I am going to side with the attempted murder interpretation. You should have lost your licence permanently as well. But hey, that's just my opinion.

No second chances eh? Very "tough on crime" - you should run for office.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#379

Post by benihana » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 5:15 PM UTC

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #302

sdoering wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point being (I believe), it is expensive to take a moral position. It costs you money and thoughtful action. You could secure the South Korean border without landmines. It just would cost a lot more money. You could do a lot of other things (or rather not do them), but it might cost you your political standing. So point being - playing the moral high card, as the US do around the world, should not follow the line fro…

>"Do as I say, don't do as I do..." Does the US gov't say that everyone else should abandon land mines?

The US Government isn't a monolithic entity that has a singular opinion.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#380

Post by anonymouz » Sat, Nov 16, 2013, 5:18 PM UTC

enko wrote: post #349

reginaldjcooper wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple DUIs do deserve a severe punishment IMO, because that is attempted murder basically and they are a danger to the public. The rest I agree are ridiculous. Huffing drugs three times does not deserve permanent incarceration.

> that is attempted murder basically Oh come on. I've lost my license for what you'd call DUI - made a stupid decision to drive the 1.5km back home from a pub, got a 1 year ban and a hefty fine. Yes, it was a stupid thing to do and I deserve what I got, but attempted murder ? Don't be ridiculous. At most repeated DUI is criminal negligence, and negligence on the part of whomever supplied the offender with the vehicle…

> Life imprisonment is an amazingly harsh and expensive over-punishment for a stupid but usually non-malicious crime.

Then again, death is an amazingly harsh and expensive punishment for an innocent who happens to get killed in a driving accident with somebody who's drunk...

That said, attempted murder doesn't really fit. Attempted Manslaughter or something like criminal negligence (of the sort that endangers people's life) maybe?