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A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

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Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#131

Post by wmil »

GuiA wrote: post #71
anigbrowl wrote: post #4

This is poorly focused. I'm absolutely against 3 strikes sentencing laws and mandatory sentencing escalations that can put petty criminals in prison for life. On the other hand, I'm perfectly OK with some criminals dying behind bars, such as the recently sentenced Whitey Bulger, and so are most other people. By making the headline about the undesirability of custodial life sentences in general, they'er losing a large…

So, question- if you actively support putting people behind bars with the intent of seeing them die there, why not just kill them right away? If the intent is for them to not cause any harm to society, then that'll get the job done while saving money for society and making them suffer for a shorter period of time. Unless the goal is to make them suffer for their entire life as punishment; in which case, why not just…

Everyone supports reforming criminals. However we don't have any system that can achieve that reliably.

I find three strikes to be to strict. But if they've proven unwilling or unable to reform it's preposterous to let them out of prison.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#132

Post by Jach »

GuiA wrote: post #71
anigbrowl wrote: post #4

This is poorly focused. I'm absolutely against 3 strikes sentencing laws and mandatory sentencing escalations that can put petty criminals in prison for life. On the other hand, I'm perfectly OK with some criminals dying behind bars, such as the recently sentenced Whitey Bulger, and so are most other people. By making the headline about the undesirability of custodial life sentences in general, they'er losing a large…

So, question- if you actively support putting people behind bars with the intent of seeing them die there, why not just kill them right away? If the intent is for them to not cause any harm to society, then that'll get the job done while saving money for society and making them suffer for a shorter period of time. Unless the goal is to make them suffer for their entire life as punishment; in which case, why not just…

Personally, I would support hanging them high instead of putting them in prison for life... except I do hold certain relevant beliefs about the future of humanity. I think there's a decent chance that before this century is out, us humans will have mastery over our brains (which may or may not be the same gooey brains we've always had), and I think it would be tragic if we put even a bad man to death instead of imprisoning him for several decades then fixing his brain when the technology comes along. If prisons become too costly for the rest of us to support or if it's going to take a lot longer for the tech, then mass cryogenic suspensions would be better than straight up executions, and for free people cryonics would be better than dying of old age... Of course if I thought humans will never gain mastery over the brain, then sure, why not have executions for those with life sentences, who ideally are those where "education" and rehabilitation are impossible due to the way their brains are?

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#133

Post by eruditely »

hobs wrote: post #3
mschuster91 wrote: post #2

As an European citizen, I think such "sentences" are more resembling China, Russia or any other dictatorship, but not a first-world country. Do human rights actually mean something in the US?

If you are poor? Not really. Every person that I see listed was not able to afford a decent lawyer.

This highlights the necessity of putting yourself in a good financial situation, otherwise be put in prison or just be black I suppose.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#134

Post by eruditely »

hobs wrote: post #3
mschuster91 wrote: post #2

As an European citizen, I think such "sentences" are more resembling China, Russia or any other dictatorship, but not a first-world country. Do human rights actually mean something in the US?

If you are poor? Not really. Every person that I see listed was not able to afford a decent lawyer.

This highlights the necessity of putting yourself in a good financial situation, otherwise be put in prison or just be black I suppose.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#135

Post by cmccabe »

GuiA wrote: post #71
anigbrowl wrote: post #4

This is poorly focused. I'm absolutely against 3 strikes sentencing laws and mandatory sentencing escalations that can put petty criminals in prison for life. On the other hand, I'm perfectly OK with some criminals dying behind bars, such as the recently sentenced Whitey Bulger, and so are most other people. By making the headline about the undesirability of custodial life sentences in general, they'er losing a large…

So, question- if you actively support putting people behind bars with the intent of seeing them die there, why not just kill them right away? If the intent is for them to not cause any harm to society, then that'll get the job done while saving money for society and making them suffer for a shorter period of time. Unless the goal is to make them suffer for their entire life as punishment; in which case, why not just…

why not just kill them right away?

Because evidence might come up later that proves them innocent. Because killing someone deprives them of all of the rest of their life, whereas life imprisonment offers them some fraction of it.

I actually do think there are some people we should just hang-- after due process, of course-- but definitely not everyone who has a long sentence.

Also, a "life" sentence usually just means 20 years in the US, for whatever reason.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#136

Post by tshile »

eaurouge wrote: post #121
tshile wrote: post #111

Wait, are we actually supposed to get worked up over this? The ACLU so clearly tip toed while writing the descriptions of these cases as to clearly walk a line between lying about the case and giving us the context needed to understand why these people are in jail for life. "Patrick had no violent criminal history and had never served a single day in a Department of Corrections facility" - Right, but he obviously had…

Three strikes on drug convictions is unfair - especially given the disparity in sentencing for crack cocain vs. other drugs. Do you have any idea how many privileged celebrities would be in jail (some for life) if drug crimes were enforced fairly and uniformly?

So for drug convictions it's unfair? possession or distribution? what about manufacturing? is the crime for possession change depending on amount? what about the type of drug?

i think the way our country approaches the issue of drugs is not only pointless but down right dumb. about as dumb as breaking the law 3 times when you know that there's a three strikes rule on the books. i just don't have sympathy for people that can't learn from their mistakes. these laws are in place for a reason, these people knew they were in place, and now we're all supposed to feel bad for them about their decisions making? sorry, i don't buy it.

as for celebrities, i don't think we can really model the entire country around how they're treated. i'd prefer they be treated like everyone else too, but money buys lawyers and not all lawyers are created equally.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#137

Post by mschuster91 »

chc wrote: post #127
mikeash wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never compared his crimes to speeding tickets. I merely used that as an example of something clearly on one side of the line. What is happening lately? The quality of discourse on this site has become absolutely atrocious.

My theory: Hacker News has been allowing more political stories through, which attracts a certain kind of poster, which has the effect of lowering the level of discourse overall (even among erstwhile "good" commenters). The actual political threads themselves, like this one, tend to be a little ahead of the curve. The strong aversion to politics was one of the things I liked about Hacker News. A lot of political issu…

The noteworthy politics-related stories I've seen in the last months almost always deal with either the NSA scandal or other attacks to basic human rights, including this one.

And I don't see any reason for these stories not to be on HN. Human rights matter for everyone.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#138

Post by phreanix »

Mithaldu wrote: post #86
thaumasiotes wrote: post #47

My thoughts on the best and the worst: > Anthony Jackson has a sixth-grade education and worked as a cook. He was convicted of burglary for stealing a wallet from a Myrtle Beach hotel room when he was 44 years old. According to prosecutors, he woke two vacationing golfers as he entered the room and stole a wallet, then pretended to be a security guard and ran away. Police arrested him when he tried to use the stolen…

> At what point does society get to tell people "you know what, knock it off"? You're thinking about this the wrong way. First, ask yourself: Why is there the justice system and prisons? The answer: To reduce occurrence of crime. Now why are prisons meant to help reduce crime? By scaring people into not committing crimes? That obviously doesn't work, especially when many people live lives so bad that they can't see a…

What is it these guys are doing right and we're doing wrong?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/11/sweden-closes-p...

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#139

Post by eruditely »

hobs wrote: post #3
mschuster91 wrote: post #2

As an European citizen, I think such "sentences" are more resembling China, Russia or any other dictatorship, but not a first-world country. Do human rights actually mean something in the US?

If you are poor? Not really. Every person that I see listed was not able to afford a decent lawyer.

This highlights the necessity of putting yourself in a good financial situation, otherwise be put in prison or just be black I suppose. This situation is unfathomable .

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#140

Post by pfedor »

GuiA wrote: post #75
zw123456 wrote: post #21

From the map it seems like all the cases are in the Southeast. Is the Southeastern United States sort or a 3rd Word Country within the U.S. ? It seems like every time I see something like this it is in the Southeast. It seems to me like the rift from the Civil War has never completely been resolved. Just an observation, does anyone else feel the same way?

I've lived in the southeast of the US as well as the west coast, and I am from Europe. To my foreign eyes, infrastructures and poverty levels in the south east of the US definitely made it feel like a 3rd world country.

For example, Alabama is almost as poor as France or Japan, and Mississippi (the poorest state) is almost as poor as Spain and New Zealand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP

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