The 3 strikes law system seems beyond ridiculous. Not being a US native, does this mean that I can get three tickets for shoplifting and go to jail for life? What about 3 speeding tickets?
/genuinely curious
A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?
91–100 of 513 posts
Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?
#92Am I the only one here not seeing this as propaganda with nicely worded articles masking a lot of the reality here? Some of them seem a little unreasonable I'll agree, but lets go through a few of these: "taking a wallet from a hotel room" - we blame it on the court appointed lawyer. He's already been convicted and sent to jail twice for burglary and he continues to break into other peoples places and steal their stu…
There's a principle in justice: A punishment fitting the crime.
As the document points out, people who raped or murdered, sometimes more than once, can leave prison after 5-15 years, depending on behavior. Meanwhile those people listed will never be able to leave, even if they spend 50 years with impeccable and absolitely perfect behavior.
Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?
#93If the judge simply orders a sentence below the minimum, what happens? While the Government can appeal the sentence, then it comes to the next judge up the line to stand up for justice.
For example, California's 3-strike law counts non-violent felonies, which sweeps up a lot of criminals into 25 year sentences that they don't deserve.
"The California law originally gave judges no discretion in setting prison terms for three strikes offenders. However, the California Supreme Court ruled, in 1996, that judges, in the interest of justice, could ignore prior convictions in determining whether an offender qualified for a three strikes sentence." [1]
But these so called "mandatory" sentences are not actually that, it's just that most judges simply don't have the guts to stand up for justice. A judge can use their discretion in setting sentences, but then can be challenged if Government can show the sentence is unreasonable. While following the guidelines is presumed reasonable, simply not following the guidelines is not presumed unreasonable.
Lois Forer was a judge in Philadelphia facing just such a decision, and he explains the process better than I can [2]. In the end, the man he tried to save was resentenced by another judge to serve the balance of the "mandatory minimum" five years. This is a system which is ultimately perpetuated by the judiciary.
I don't blame the legislature for enacting laws that get them re-elected. I do blame the judges for letting a sentencing law unjustly destroy some peoples lives.
[1] - http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Three+Strikes+... [2] - http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Justice+by+the+numbers%3B+mand...
Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where do you draw the line? I bet you wouldn't go for life in prison for someone who get three speeding tickets. Once we agree that there is a line, then it just comes down to which side of the line a particular crime is on. I don't see wallet theft as being all that serious. Yeah, it sucks to be the victim (been there, done that) but it's fairly minor in the grand scheme of things. Ultimately, the point of letting h…
there is a difference between pickpocket and breaking and entering. I'm guessing if someone else came into your house or place you were staying you'd be pretty scared and think that it was pretty unacceptable behavior deserving of some serious jail time. After 3 times, it seems reasonable to escalate the penalty a bit. Perhaps life is too severe, but it should be for a long damn time.
Is it already time for the "imagine you're the victim" rhetoric?
There's a reason we don't let victims decide criminal penalties.
Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?
#95This is poorly focused. I'm absolutely against 3 strikes sentencing laws and mandatory sentencing escalations that can put petty criminals in prison for life. On the other hand, I'm perfectly OK with some criminals dying behind bars, such as the recently sentenced Whitey Bulger, and so are most other people. By making the headline about the undesirability of custodial life sentences in general, they'er losing a large…
So, question- if you actively support putting people behind bars with the intent of seeing them die there, why not just kill them right away? If the intent is for them to not cause any harm to society, then that'll get the job done while saving money for society and making them suffer for a shorter period of time. Unless the goal is to make them suffer for their entire life as punishment; in which case, why not just…
I'm legitimately curious as to why one would support prison if one does not believe that society should aspire to transform criminals into better, law abiding citizens.
Deterrence. Not that trying to reform criminals is a bad idea, but it's not the only goal of the system.
Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?
#96This is poorly focused. I'm absolutely against 3 strikes sentencing laws and mandatory sentencing escalations that can put petty criminals in prison for life. On the other hand, I'm perfectly OK with some criminals dying behind bars, such as the recently sentenced Whitey Bulger, and so are most other people. By making the headline about the undesirability of custodial life sentences in general, they'er losing a large…
So, question- if you actively support putting people behind bars with the intent of seeing them die there, why not just kill them right away? If the intent is for them to not cause any harm to society, then that'll get the job done while saving money for society and making them suffer for a shorter period of time. Unless the goal is to make them suffer for their entire life as punishment; in which case, why not just…
Killing someone actually ends up costing more than imprisoning them for life (Just an FYI). I do however agree with your point about what the goal of prison should be.
Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?
#97This really shows the unjustness of "three strikes" laws. There is nothing magical about committing three crimes. In my opinion, sentences should reflect the crime you actually committed an not much else.
Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?
#98My thoughts on the best and the worst: > Anthony Jackson has a sixth-grade education and worked as a cook. He was convicted of burglary for stealing a wallet from a Myrtle Beach hotel room when he was 44 years old. According to prosecutors, he woke two vacationing golfers as he entered the room and stole a wallet, then pretended to be a security guard and ran away. Police arrested him when he tried to use the stolen…
Theft is a bad thing but hardly deserving of a life sentence, even with a history of burglary. The economic cost of this crime is at most a few thousand $, probably much less. The economic cost of incarcerating the guy for 30-40 years is going to be a few million.
depends on where he is. cost of prisons varies wildly by state and city, which i find to be a bit bizarre. According to some quick research, it can be as low as 13k a year (Louisiana) to as high as 47k a year (California) and even on smaller levels 167k (New York City).
30 years in Louisiana is just over 2 years in new york city.
Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, question- if you actively support putting people behind bars with the intent of seeing them die there, why not just kill them right away? If the intent is for them to not cause any harm to society, then that'll get the job done while saving money for society and making them suffer for a shorter period of time. Unless the goal is to make them suffer for their entire life as punishment; in which case, why not just…
I'm legitimately curious as to why one would support prison if one does not believe that society should aspire to transform criminals into better, law abiding citizens. Deterrence. Not that trying to reform criminals is a bad idea, but it's not the only goal of the system.
Well, my points about torture and death penalty hold for deterrence. One could even argue that they'd be even more efficient, especially if performed publicly!
Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, question- if you actively support putting people behind bars with the intent of seeing them die there, why not just kill them right away? If the intent is for them to not cause any harm to society, then that'll get the job done while saving money for society and making them suffer for a shorter period of time. Unless the goal is to make them suffer for their entire life as punishment; in which case, why not just…
Killing someone actually ends up costing more than imprisoning them for life (Just an FYI). I do however agree with your point about what the goal of prison should be.
If our powers that be decided that the death penalty should be done in a cost-effective way, I'm sure they'd find a solution :)