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Terminal Cornucopia

terminalcornucopia.com

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Re: Terminal Cornucopia

#41

Post by malandrew »

jlgreco wrote: post #16
chimeracoder wrote: post #11

> All of these findings have been reported to the Department of Homeland Security (TSA) to help them better detect these types of threats. The threats that the TSA itself admits are non-existent? ( http://tsaoutofourpants.wordpress.com/2013/10/17/tsa-admits-... ) The best I can see coming of this is that the TSA will start to ban braided leather belts and condoms.

The more ludicrous the TSA gets with its bans, the better. In the long run doing that will only make them look like clowns and make the general public resent them more.

I believe this is the end game:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6693455

Re: Terminal Cornucopia

#42

Post by malandrew »

joshdance wrote: post #18

I don't know how effective any of these techniques would be to a terrorist, however cool and ingeniously constructed the weapons were. The whole security TSA thing is mostly a show anyways.

Taking over a plane with box cutters was mostly show as well. It only worked in 2001 because people went along with terrorist theater.

If any would be terrorists tried the same tactic from 2001 today they would be mauled in the cockpit. Prior to 2001, passengers assumed they would be hostages and would come out unharmed if they cooperate. Now they assume they are potential collateral damage. That's a huge difference.

The only thing they actually need to prevent getting past screening is explosives. Every other method I can think of would not work fast enough before the passengers take you out.

The only way to overpower an entire plane full of passengers is in numbers and spread throughout the plane. Social Network Analysis can be guess if more than N passengers not sitting together (i.e. not family or friends) are likely acquaintances warranting greater scrutiny.

Re: Terminal Cornucopia

#43

Post by hughlomas »

None of these weapons would be of much use for anything besides maiming one or two people, which could be accomplished with much simpler things. They are novel creations though.

Re: Terminal Cornucopia

#44

Post by D9u »

daniel-cussen wrote: post #37
D9u wrote: post #31

The real travesty here is that "General Aviation" flights (private aircraft) face no such TSA screening as we see in "Commercial Aviation" flight terminals. So anyone who has the money to charter a private jet is also able to carry whatever they want onto an aircraft, which illustrates the double standard inherent in most tyrannical systems.

Onto any aircraft?

My experience is that many Private Aircraft terminals, such as private jets, private helicopters, etc, don't screen passengers, or their luggage, the way the public is searched in "Commercial Aircraft" pre-flight screening.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/private-...

http://www.generalaviationnews.com/2011/01/is-ga-a-menace/

The above links discuss the matter further.

Re: Terminal Cornucopia

#45

Post by dsjoerg »

malandrew wrote: post #42
joshdance wrote: post #18

I don't know how effective any of these techniques would be to a terrorist, however cool and ingeniously constructed the weapons were. The whole security TSA thing is mostly a show anyways.

Taking over a plane with box cutters was mostly show as well. It only worked in 2001 because people went along with terrorist theater. If any would be terrorists tried the same tactic from 2001 today they would be mauled in the cockpit. Prior to 2001, passengers assumed they would be hostages and would come out unharmed if they cooperate. Now they assume they are potential collateral damage. That's a huge difference.…

I would hope the passengers on a plane would be so brave, but there is a real collective action problem there for the passengers. Best case scenario, there are enough brave people on board willing to selflessly risk death to -- hopefully -- save lives. Would I? Would you? You don't know what you're made of until the moment comes, and I hope neither you nor I are ever tested in this way.

Remember, individually it's "rational" (in the game-theoretic sense) to let the other brave folks take the risk, while you sit there nervously and think about the kids/parents/pets who couldn't bear to be without you. And let someone else be the hero.

Worse case scenario, nobody is brave, and everyone dies as a result.

Re: Terminal Cornucopia

#46

Post by D9u »

mgkimsal wrote: post #38
D9u wrote: post #31

The real travesty here is that "General Aviation" flights (private aircraft) face no such TSA screening as we see in "Commercial Aviation" flight terminals. So anyone who has the money to charter a private jet is also able to carry whatever they want onto an aircraft, which illustrates the double standard inherent in most tyrannical systems.

have no fear - our theater is 100% reactionary. when an attack like this is carried out then we'll put in onerous theater procedures to slow things down there as well. Then... we'll wait for an attack on sea vessels. After people die that way, we'll put more security theater there, without ever reducing or removing the decade+ old theater imposed in other areas.

There already have been such attacks...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/19/us/19crash.html?_r=0

Re: Terminal Cornucopia

#47

Post by hobs »

dsjoerg wrote: post #45
malandrew wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking over a plane with box cutters was mostly show as well. It only worked in 2001 because people went along with terrorist theater. If any would be terrorists tried the same tactic from 2001 today they would be mauled in the cockpit. Prior to 2001, passengers assumed they would be hostages and would come out unharmed if they cooperate. Now they assume they are potential collateral damage. That's a huge difference.…

I would hope the passengers on a plane would be so brave, but there is a real collective action problem there for the passengers. Best case scenario, there are enough brave people on board willing to selflessly risk death to -- hopefully -- save lives. Would I? Would you? You don't know what you're made of until the moment comes, and I hope neither you nor I are ever tested in this way. Remember, individually it's "r…

Considering it has happened several times since 9/11 and people HAVE taken action, I think you are wrong at this point.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/29/world/asia/china-plane-hijack-... http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/default.aspx?pageid=438&n=m... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-149289/Italian-plane...

etc etc etc

Re: Terminal Cornucopia

#49

Post by treefort »

guiomie wrote: post #26

Lol ... Planned Parenthood.. Why go thru all this trouble, and not just use the black rod to stab someone ? would be way more effective no ?

That all depends. Is the attacker trying to hurt someone within arm's reach, or are they trying to disable the pilot/co-pilot as they are walking back into the cockpit after a trip to the lavatory from the comfort of their first-class seat? Everybody poops.
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