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I've met very very few IT workers who are happy with their jobs

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Re: I've met very very few IT workers who are happy with their jobs

#21

Post by roc »

patio11 wrote: post #15
roc wrote: post #8

It's a living-to-work vs working-to-live question, really. As it turns out, far more people choose to compartmentalize their work-life into an annoying, necessary evil than to dial back their standard of living while dramatically increasing their work responsibilities. And this is true of more than just programmers. I've heard similar from accountants, lawyers, cooks, bank reps -- basically everyone I've ever worked…

I think small businesses get about the sweetest retirement packages in the United States which do not involve backstopping by the taxpayers of California. With the SEP plan (one of a few options) you can sock up to, essentially, $5k + 25% of salary (capped at a very generous number) in a tax advantaged retirement account. It is like the IRAs available to regular wage employees, except superior in just about every way…

SEPs are employer-contributed. The employer selects a fixed percentage of salary for all employees and contribute to an IRA in the employees name. The employee cannot contribute additional money into that fund, so the 49k limit is largely hypothetical (except for perhaps the very-successfully self-employed). SEP is certainly better than nothing, but they also don't confer any benefits beyond other tax-deferred etirement plan. And the inability of employees under an SEP to make additional contributions to it is a huge drawback for anyone who can't set the contribution percentage to their preference. (catch-up contributions notwithstanding)

IRAs are personal retirement accounts, separate from the issue of employer compensation. Anyone can contribute up to 5k to an IRA in 2009. But if you work for a company with, say, a 401k, you can sock away up to an extra 16.5k. And (the relevant bit) when your employer (inevitably) contributes less than what you'd like, you can personally contribute until you hit that warm fuzzy feeling.

I don't know about you, but I've socked away more than 5k per year toward retirement. Rolling with just my own IRA wouldn't cut it. And the lost employer contribution to a tax-deferred plan is a non-trivial amount of additional compensation loss to be considered when moving from corporate employment to small business/self-employment.

Re: I've met very very few IT workers who are happy with their jobs

#22

Post by dugmartin »

patio11 wrote: post #15
roc wrote: post #8

It's a living-to-work vs working-to-live question, really. As it turns out, far more people choose to compartmentalize their work-life into an annoying, necessary evil than to dial back their standard of living while dramatically increasing their work responsibilities. And this is true of more than just programmers. I've heard similar from accountants, lawyers, cooks, bank reps -- basically everyone I've ever worked…

I think small businesses get about the sweetest retirement packages in the United States which do not involve backstopping by the taxpayers of California. With the SEP plan (one of a few options) you can sock up to, essentially, $5k + 25% of salary (capped at a very generous number) in a tax advantaged retirement account. It is like the IRAs available to regular wage employees, except superior in just about every way…

Until they decide to tax it in 20 years to pay for all the entitlements for the retired boomers.

Re: I've met very very few IT workers who are happy with their jobs

#23

Post by Brushfire »

patio11 wrote: post #15
roc wrote: post #8

It's a living-to-work vs working-to-live question, really. As it turns out, far more people choose to compartmentalize their work-life into an annoying, necessary evil than to dial back their standard of living while dramatically increasing their work responsibilities. And this is true of more than just programmers. I've heard similar from accountants, lawyers, cooks, bank reps -- basically everyone I've ever worked…

I think small businesses get about the sweetest retirement packages in the United States which do not involve backstopping by the taxpayers of California. With the SEP plan (one of a few options) you can sock up to, essentially, $5k + 25% of salary (capped at a very generous number) in a tax advantaged retirement account. It is like the IRAs available to regular wage employees, except superior in just about every way…

I might be wrong, but Ive always though $1 in my business is worth a lot more than $1 in any sort of retirement account I wont need for 40 years.

Business-exit is my retirement fund.

Re: I've met very very few IT workers who are happy with their jobs

#24

Post by jodrellblank »

mynameishere wrote: post #3

Fuckers need to try cleaning chemical reactors.

By that logic, if you'd tried being an untouchable sewer cleaner in India, you'd have loved your job cleaning chemical reactors by comparison.

But somehow, you are allowed to imply that cleaning chemical reactors wasn't much fun, while at the same time disallowing other people from expressing negative feelings about their jobs.

Re: I've met very very few IT workers who are happy with their jobs

#25

Post by niels »

biotech wrote: post #17

I can't seem to link to an individual comment, so I'm just going to repost it here. It's by Katie Lucas. Begin Quote: The problem with IT, generally, is lack of respect. Because it's something that looks easy and looks like something anyone could do, people don't respect experience and talent. For some reason this just doesn't work in other fields. While everyone feels they can put a sticking plaster on a cut, they g…

I had exactly the same idea. This is a great post. Ohh.. how we all have been there.

Re: I've met very very few IT workers who are happy with their jobs

#26

Post by spudlyo »

blhack wrote: post #14

I'll admit that I am very unhappy with my current job. Part of this is whining, I know, but just hear me out. One major, major, major problem with my job is that I work for a small company, and am the only person here that knows tech at all. This was really great for me at the beginning. I am very proficient in BSD and Linux, so everything (mailserver, file server, FTPs, VPN, firewall, etc.) was built on one the two.…

Let me get this straight. You intentionally built out a custom DYI enthusiast IT infrastructure out of a random collection of OpenBSD and Linux boxen and then complain that nobody but you understands it? Unless you've completely documented how everything works and fits together you've made it very difficult for anyone else to maintain it. That's one way to ensure job security.

Re: I've met very very few IT workers who are happy with their jobs

#27

Post by strlen »

I wonder why so many happiness complaints in Joel on Software forums always talk about working in "IT" (as opposed to "engineering")? I've never been referred to as "IT", but I've only worked in companies where producing software/Internet services was the core competency and either as production operations engineer (i.e. customer facing systems, not internal systems) or as a software engineer.

Is the case with these posters that they're working in places where making a technology-oriented product/service is not the core competency (or if it is, they're not working in the departments that are responsible for core products/services)? Why do people stay in these environments, if they have/want to have any sense of passion about what they do (rather than merely think of their job as a way to make money)?

The other big factor is that I am based in Silicon Valley. Could this be another factor, that outside of SF Bay Area/Seattle/Los Angeles and select other metropolitan areas anything computing-related is referred to as "IT" and treated as a cost center vs. a core competency?

Seems like there's several conclusions:

I. These people are passionate about a subject, but are working in an environment where passion is not expected or even appreciated.

II. Either for some reason they're unwilling to switch to a field or environment where their passion will be rewarded (pay/hours/benefits?), or that option is not available to them (due to geographic locale?)

Re: I've met very very few IT workers who are happy with their jobs

#28

Post by pasbesoin »

Someone recently commented, here on HN or elsewhere, that IT is often viewed as a cost center, not a profit center.

Anyone who has spent any significant amount of time in corporate life knows what happens to cost centers. They are at best "tolerated" and are squeezed as hard as they can be. Anytime the bottom line needs a bump, the first thing requested is a list of "cost centers".

(I typed a bunch more, but I think I'll leave it at the above, for our mutual benefit.)

Re: I've met very very few IT workers who are happy with their jobs

#29

Post by plinkplonk »

strlen wrote: post #27

I wonder why so many happiness complaints in Joel on Software forums always talk about working in "IT" (as opposed to "engineering")? I've never been referred to as "IT", but I've only worked in companies where producing software/Internet services was the core competency and either as production operations engineer (i.e. customer facing systems, not internal systems) or as a software engineer. Is the case with these…

"Is the case with these posters that they're working in places where making a technology-oriented product/service is not the core competency (or if is, they're not working in the departments that are responsible for core products/services)? "

Bingo!

Being a software engineer (or just "programmer" if you will) for a company for which producing software is the primary business is very different from being some kind of IT "drone". Hell, even if I wanted to program for a company that did, say , insurance, I would at worst be an enterprise programmer, and those jobs , while being (relatively) boring seem more more fun than these "IT" horror stories.

Re: I've met very very few IT workers who are happy with their jobs

#30

Post by mattmcknight »

strlen wrote: post #27

I wonder why so many happiness complaints in Joel on Software forums always talk about working in "IT" (as opposed to "engineering")? I've never been referred to as "IT", but I've only worked in companies where producing software/Internet services was the core competency and either as production operations engineer (i.e. customer facing systems, not internal systems) or as a software engineer. Is the case with these…

Your 2nd paragraph is dead on. Working at a company where you are viewed as an overhead expense, rather than as an R&D cost is no fun. It's the third tier software job, but there are a lot of these jobs out there. I'd put working for a company that sells software as tier one and working for a software consulting company as tier two. This is why those jobs are so subject to outsourcing, if you bring in another company to take over those functions, at least the employees of that company are working towards their core competency.

One "solution" to this is to get more involved in the business or mission of the organization you support. Of course, the bureaucracy may resist this sort of move.

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