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Re: Coin

#621

Post by adam-a »

gambiting wrote: post #458
avree wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, why would we want chip+pin in the US?

Pretty much no-one accepts swipe-only cards in the UK,because they are a massive source of fraud, pin+chip is a lot more secure and results in a very,very,very few chargebacks for the merchants.

With EMV the banks have introduced what they call "liability shift" which means that if a merchant has a chip and pin terminal and someone manages to use a fraudulent card through it the bank will bear the cost. So there is no chargeback. Though this also means though that if a merchant doesn't have a chip and pin terminal and accept a fraudulent card through the magnetic stripe then they will get a chargeback and have to cover the cost of the fraud.

http://www.enterpriseefficiency.com/author.asp?section_id=10...

Re: Coin

#622

Post by btbuilder »

rcoh wrote: post #584
Nursie wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why the US hasn't adopted EMV. It's not perfect, but it has cut down fraud massively here in Europe. They're very hard to clone (I won't say impossible, but attacks against EMV have not generally been of this nature) and the transaction records at both ends will tell you whether the actual, real card was there. The liability is more clear-cut as a result. If the customer claims the charge was unauthorise…

The US hasn't adopted EMV because it isn't necessary. EMV was created because in Eastern Europe many businesses didn't have sufficiently reliable phone and internet connections to validate credit cards -- in the US we have no such problem. The cost of rolling out EMV was determined to be greater than the cost credit card companies paying for the increase in fraud and chargebacks out of pocket.

I'm not sure about this logic considering one of the earliest adopters of EMV was the UK.

Re: Coin

#623

Post by GotAnyMegadeth »

I hate this kind of scroll website, using the mouse wheel to scroll just means everything is really jerky and isn't ever quite lined up, or correctly faded.

Re: Coin

#624

Post by lmm »

joncfoo wrote: post #326
avree wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, why would we want chip+pin in the US?

It enables the following: - less liability for the merchant - either the transaction was explicitly approved or wasn't - sense of security for the user - card never leaves you - if you ever lose the card it doesn't matter - there's no reason to sign anymore (less opportunities for fraud) I can't quite put my finger on it but it does change the dynamic between wait staff & consumers when you're out dining - it just ma…

It means that rather than the waiter taking your card away and coming back 5 minutes later, they bring the machine to you (or you go up to the front desk) and you pay there. Certainly makes me feel much more comfortable, whether or not it's really any safer.

Re: Coin

#625

Post by vidarh »

dgallagher wrote: post #455
outworlder wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Brazilian, I think the US banks are very strange. "Swipe" cards have been phased out years ago - you'd have to try hard to find a bank which will still issue one. Specifically because you can no longer find ATMs which rely solely on the magstripe. Some banks have biometric fingerprint readers (where you put in your hand and it reads multiple fingerprints at the same time) in addition to the PIN code of the debit…

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. You hit on something though; in the U.S. there are tens of thousands of ATM machines all over. They all accept PIN numbers, and I "believe" magnetic-strip as well (not sure if they're doing fancy stuff too with built-in chips or not). It's the standard that everyone uses; debit card and credit cards alike. To change that to support different tech, you'd have to upgrade all of the…

"Everywhere" else in the world has managed - the combined population of countries that have deployed EMV / chip and pin is vastly higher than the US.

And it is coming to the US too, in some form or other: Pretty much all the major banks have committed to introduce it (though in some cases chip + signature) by mid 2015.

Re: Coin

#626

Post by dzhiurgis »

Why people in US are so crazy about credit cards?

I have 2 cards, only one is actually credit, but that's because I am expat, so I still keep one card from my home country.

Someone mentioned owning 16 or 9 cards, which sounds so unbelievable to me.

Re: Coin

#627

Post by vidarh »

brotchie wrote: post #605
eterm wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why have the coin with "contactless" payment (as paywave etc is known in the uk at least) when the phone itself should be capable of that itself.

I wonder why the big US banks aren't on board with driving contacless NFC payments? Commonwealth Bank, the largest bank in Australia is very soon releasing native Android NFC support and NFC style "smart tags" that you stick to the back of your iPhone. https://www.commbank.com.au/personal/online-banking/commbank... This pretty much eliminates the need for any kind of "card aggregation". I wonder how quickly other cou…

I'm in the UK, and had a NFC "smart tag" on the phone I threw away a year ago. Never bothered getting a new tag for my new phone. Maybe when I next upgrade my phone and get one with built in NFC.

Re: Coin

#628

Post by vidarh »

saryant wrote: post #577
rmc wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans going to Europe: Remember that your credit card might not work as often in Europe. Be prepared for hearing "We only take chip & pin cards here" in shops etc.

I keep hearing this but I spent six months in Europe and the only place that wouldn't take my swipe card was SNCF ticket kiosks. Wasn't a problem anywhere else.

Europe is a big place, with around 50 countries... 6 months won't begin to scratch the surface.

Re: Coin

#629

Post by vidarh »

rcoh wrote: post #584
Nursie wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why the US hasn't adopted EMV. It's not perfect, but it has cut down fraud massively here in Europe. They're very hard to clone (I won't say impossible, but attacks against EMV have not generally been of this nature) and the transaction records at both ends will tell you whether the actual, real card was there. The liability is more clear-cut as a result. If the customer claims the charge was unauthorise…

The US hasn't adopted EMV because it isn't necessary. EMV was created because in Eastern Europe many businesses didn't have sufficiently reliable phone and internet connections to validate credit cards -- in the US we have no such problem. The cost of rolling out EMV was determined to be greater than the cost credit card companies paying for the increase in fraud and chargebacks out of pocket.

Pretty much every major US bank has committed to rolling out EMV by middle of 2015.

Re: Coin

#630

Post by vidarh »

fps wrote: post #266
Nursie wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Errr, did you read the part where fraud has dropped massively? And liability is more clear-cut and reasonable for pretty much all parties? --edit-- and did you think us Europeans just rolled it out for shits and giggles?

Credit card fraud is generally not a problem in the US for consumers or the credit card companies, the two groups that would be in a position to adopt a new credit card technology. The merchants accept all the liability in the US credit card system, and they're at the mercy of the credit card company's policies, and the consumer's desire to use their card of choice or go somewhere else. As a consumer, I avoid cash-on…

That was exactly the same in Europe. Yet the bank pushed EMV hard.

And the EMV transition has been going on behind the scenes in the US for years too, so expect to start getting cards with a chip as your cards expire over the next couple of years.

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