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Coin

onlycoin.com

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Re: Coin

#431

Post by scholia »

nlh wrote: post #324
abalone wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are mistaken about card rules. To protect themselves against chargebacks the merchant needs to keep a copy of the signed credit card slip, not a physical imprint of the card. That's actually better than a physical imprint (which is impossible on many cards these days anyway) because a matching signature can prove who used the card, not just that the card was physically present.

Worth looking into! Thanks. I know there's been at several cases where we specifically lost because of lack of imprint, but another thing I've learned in dealing with the credit card issuers is that, despite what we hope, there is MASSIVE inconsistency in the application of chargeback rules. Sometimes you'll lose a chargeback because the issuer just wants to be nice their cardholder (Amex is guilty of this) and they'…

My understanding is that US banks can write a proportion of the loss off against tax, so 50/50 splits are not that unusual. But it probably depends on the circumstances.

I'm in the UK and this is not really my area, so you'd probably have a better chance of verifying that than me.

Re: Coin

#432

Post by umsm »

revelation wrote: post #391
Nursie wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why the US hasn't adopted EMV. It's not perfect, but it has cut down fraud massively here in Europe. They're very hard to clone (I won't say impossible, but attacks against EMV have not generally been of this nature) and the transaction records at both ends will tell you whether the actual, real card was there. The liability is more clear-cut as a result. If the customer claims the charge was unauthorise…

So that's why this video was so confusing to me. It was essentially this guy sliding someones card (he claims it's his, but neither the device nor the card know, right?) and then happily paying stuff with it through his fake replica (or the high-tech version of it, the 'coin'). It seemed like a completely unusable system for it's complete lack of any security. (Particularly if you consider there are now live payment…

Theoretically, the creators of coin can implement some sort of security in these sorts of situations:

1) They require you to register this "coin" device 2) They require you to add some banking account details

Now, if you were to "clone" someone else's card without their permission, the trail would lead directly to you...

Re: Coin

#433

Post by PeterisP »

foobarqux wrote: post #264
Nursie wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Errr, did you read the part where fraud has dropped massively? And liability is more clear-cut and reasonable for pretty much all parties? --edit-- and did you think us Europeans just rolled it out for shits and giggles?

> And liability is more clear-cut and reasonable for pretty much all parties? Meaning shifted entirely to the consumer?

EU law shifts pretty much all liability away from consumer.

There's a cap of EUR 150 consumer liability for lost&stolen (physically) cards up until you notify the bank; zero liability for lost&stolen cards after the time of notification, and zero liability for any fraudulent transactions if your card isn't lost or stolen.

Only UK law (and MC/Visa rules for UK) is a bit different, but another poster describes them below.

Re: Coin

#434

Post by swamp40 »

I don't know if I can make a suggestion that might be seen with all the activity here - but if it were me designing it, I would have an option to lock-in a single card via the smartphone app.

Or, maybe only allow switching within a foot or two of your smartphone.

That would eliminate the concern people have about where the waiter accidentally pushes the button and switches the active card.

Re: Coin

#435

Post by jules »

qqg3 wrote: post #352
rmc wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans going to Europe: Remember that your credit card might not work as often in Europe. Be prepared for hearing "We only take chip & pin cards here" in shops etc.

Actually, most places WILL take the old 'swipe' cards. But most cashiers and either never worked with or forgetting about swipe cards. You just have to be very verbal and upfront and let them know yours is a swipe/ swipe and sign job.

Actually, in the Netherlands, even supermarkets stopped accepting swipe cards. The machines are still physically capable of reading swipe cards, but the supermarket simply won't let you, presumably exactly because of this risk.

Note that a lot of places wouldn't accept credit cards in the first place (swipe or not), only debit cards.

Re: Coin

#436

Post by lk145 »

ams6110 wrote: post #143
doughj3 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oops, now your boss wants to know why you just paid for your groceries on the business credit card and you have to explain that you cloned your business credit card and there was a mistake!! I'm not sure how every corporate card works, but I have accidentally made purchases on a Corporate Amex before and it's not a problem. I just pay that part off myself and don't mark it to be expensed. Don't see this as a proble…

OTOH in other companies you might be in serious hot water. Or, if you work for the government, potentially going to jail for putting personal expenses on a government card.

I had a purchasing card when I worked for a state university. They monitored the transactions on the card extremely closely since it was tied to state money and federal grant money. If I had mistakenly charged a personal expense on it, I would have had to contact a couple different administrators, explain the mistake, and get the transaction refunded (and then pay for the expense myself). It would have been a bureaucratic pain, but I would not have gotten in trouble for it, certainly not jail.

Re: Coin

#437

Post by bonjourmr »

Do they know that their logo very closely resembles Australia's largest investment banks? http://macquarie.com.au/

I know this oversight can happen and it sucks, but the two are in the same industry (Macquraie has a global presence and quite a substantial US one), so it might come under some sort of copyright infringement. Just a heads up!

Re: Coin

#438

Post by tiglionabbit »

nlh wrote: post #167

SUPER clever idea -- kudos for that. In theory, this is awesome. As a consumer, I love it. As a merchant, however (which I am), there is no chance I would accept this. None. Unless the issuers (that is, Visa, MC, Amex) drastically change their policies, which I don't see happening anytime soon. Why? Because the issuers are very clear about a few things: When push comes to shove and it REALLY gets down to it, unless t…

Many card reading devices these days support near-field communication and will allow you to pay using your smartphone. In this case there isn't even a card. So some merchants will surely be fine with this physical card solution.

Re: Coin

#439

Post by dakrisht »

zymhan wrote: post #414
dakrisht wrote: post #272

It's a neat concept, but I just don't think this gets anywhere. Dead in the water - as much as I would personally like to see them succeed. The biggest problems here are security. () Merchants will hate it since there is no physical imprint / swipe of the bank-issued card. This will lead to chargebacks in favor of the customer. So this alone kills this company/product. () Banks might change their terms forbidding cus…

() Battery issues with digitizing a non-battery product (credit card). Be in no doubt that more than half of users will forget to charge their credit card (as if we don't have enough things to charge). So you'll see people having lunches and presenting a dead Coin. And since you don't have any plastic, well, now you're screwed. Clearly you didn't read the site. Maybe you should pay more attention to things you critic…

As someone who's been actively involved in engineering Bluetooth LE devices, believe me, with constant daily usage, it will NOT last 2 years. There are so many factors involved with BLE, not just limited to usage, but with respect to range, environmental conditions, etc.

What's your point? None

I actually forgot to add something to my original critique: if your device (iPhone) dies, and Coin isn't authenticated you can't use your card(s)!! Haha

Can't believe I missed this. There's another bullet of flaws to add.

Their FAQ is vague and doesn't really answer any questions, especially the important ones. They attempt to give clever and confronting responses to serious questions and most people can see right through that. Comments on their FAQ like "Should last" and "a lot can happen between now and Summer 2014" - get out here. If you want customers to pay (a premium) for an experimental product - be concrete and firm.

Re: Coin

#440

Post by emiliobumachar »

Anderkent wrote: post #340
rmc wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in your scenario, a good fit would be a cigarette case that you'd keep in your front pocket. Eurpean here. I was shocked to learn many USAian men keep their wallet in the back pocket. How do you sit on that?

I'm european, and hold my wallet in the back pocket or in my jacket. I just take it out and put it on the table when sitting.

I simply do not buy pants which don't come with extra pockets over the thighs. They are really hard to find, but they Solve The Problem. (I'm Brazilian, but atypical in this habit)
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