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Meet Coin (YC W13), a startup creating a universal credit card

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Re: Meet Coin (YC W13), a startup creating a universal credit card

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, actually after I made the comment I realize that that issue of acceptance is probably the reason they are selling this on kickstarter instead of a VC backing it. It may have been identified as a risk during YC and now they are still trying to make it work. I hope the founder comments on this point. If it is usable and merchant contracts are in place for long enough, this is really cool. If there is a whole in t…

In theory, merchants should recognize the Coin as not a valid card according to http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchant/pdf/BM-Entire_Manual_p... part 8.4.2. Coin apparently aren't a MC/Visa issuer, so they can't claim to issue a valid card or mobile payment device. In addition, merchants are supposed to judge cards by the system logo - and Coin can't have MC or Visa logo if they aren't an issuer, and certainly no card…

Interesting. Well I hope the founders worked that part out.

It looks like those cards will create a huge security issue if they are accepted.

Re: Meet Coin (YC W13), a startup creating a universal credit card

#163

I have mixed opinions on this - it feels like a cosmetic solution to a somewhat non-problem. Would I carry it? As of yet - no, I would rather use iphone apps etc. The other problem that it misses is the show that people like to make of using a certain card. I have an amex platinum for business purposes, but I still get a bit of thrill every time I use it and I get a look, how does Coin approach that problem?

credit cards only make up 10% of what's actually in my wallet. Now if they could minimize health insurance cards, loyalty cards, etc.. etc... then we're talking.

With that said. I still signed up :-)

Re: Meet Coin (YC W13), a startup creating a universal credit card

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring ID is against the rules of every major card network; so are things like adding surcharges, and having minimum transaction amounts. Think about it, anything that adds friction to using a card makes it more likely you might use cash, eating into the card network's revenues. Anything that does that is likely to be frowned upon or prohibited. Report merchants that do that. For Visa, call your card issuer. For A…

None of that is true. The card brands explicitly train merchants to check signatures against government-issued ID. [1] [2] Card brands may not prohibit minimum charges per federal law. [3] Visa and MasterCard agreed to allow credit surcharges in a settlement agreement for a long-standing class-action suit by retailers. [4] 1: http://usa.visa.com/merchants/risk_management/card_present.h... 2: http://www.mastercard.com…

No. You are wrong.

> The card brands explicitly train merchants to check signatures against government-issued ID.

When the card is unsigned. Every card I have is marked "NOT VALID UNLESS SIGNED". It absolutely is a merchant violation to demand government issued ID when presented with a valid signed card. A card signed "SEE ID" is clearly not valid.

As far as you're other points, the US is not the only legal jurisdiction or market in the world.

Re: Meet Coin (YC W13), a startup creating a universal credit card

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that is true. The card brands explicitly train merchants to check signatures against government-issued ID. [1] [2] Card brands may not prohibit minimum charges per federal law. [3] Visa and MasterCard agreed to allow credit surcharges in a settlement agreement for a long-standing class-action suit by retailers. [4] 1: http://usa.visa.com/merchants/risk_management/card_present.h... 2: http://www.mastercard.com…

No. You are wrong. > The card brands explicitly train merchants to check signatures against government-issued ID. When the card is unsigned . Every card I have is marked "NOT VALID UNLESS SIGNED". It absolutely is a merchant violation to demand government issued ID when presented with a valid signed card. A card signed "SEE ID" is clearly not valid. As far as you're other points, the US is not the only legal jurisdic…

I'm not wrong.

It is a violation to make ID a condition of accepting Visa at all. It is not a violation to ask for ID from specific customers, regardless of whether the card is signed or not. It says this very clearly in the "Card Acceptance Guidelines for Visa Merchants" booklet. The closest they get to forbidding it is a recommendation that you don't make it part of your standard procedure as, and I quote, "it can slow down a sale and annoy the customer".

In the case of a suspicious transaction, the merchant is also supposed to call Visa for a "Code 10 Authorization". One of the things Visa may do is instruct you to check the customer's ID.

If a store asks you for your ID, calling up Visa to report a violation won't do you any good as they haven't violated anything. As far as your jurisdiction punt, we're talking about a product intended (and only really usable) for the US.

Re: Meet Coin (YC W13), a startup creating a universal credit card

#166
post #126

Hmm, pretty neat hack! I like the idea a lot. I'm disappointed that they didn't mention that this is hooked to an online service until you get well into their FAQ: Maintaining the integrity of your Coin’s data is critical to your peace of mind. That’s why our servers, mobile apps and the Coin itself use 128-bit or 256-bit encryption for all storage and communication (http and bluetooth). Additionally Coin can alert y…

I think the online service has the potential to be the most valuable part of this whole product. All your transactions, across multiple accounts, tracked in one place allowing breakdowns of your spending and clarity on our outgoings. I also see a big win here for Coin, think Mint but with an opportunity to also suggest better products & services to spend your money on (since they'll know almost everything you're buyi…

Yeah, that whole "marketer's dream" part is exactly what I object to. No thanks.

Re: Meet Coin (YC W13), a startup creating a universal credit card

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the button only works when the card is near the phone?

That would be a pretty neat solution, but still has a window where it could be an issue. Perhaps do the card selection from the app? Or at least an option to require confirmation in the app?

That's a neat solution to the security problem also.

You go to the app on your phone and select the card you want. The coin will now function as that card for the next 5 minutes only. Otherwise, the coin is nothing.

Now even if your wallet is stolen, without your phone (+ unlock code, etc.) they don't have any of your cards!

Re: Meet Coin (YC W13), a startup creating a universal credit card

#169
Programmable mag stripe cards are really nothing new. This implementation is quite nice and sexy though. I can see immediate problems with it though:

1) Card thickness. Most makers of programmable mag stripe cards try to make their card the same thickness as a normal sized credit card. Why? Because thicker cards might scrape or get stuck in credit card readers (as old Amex black cardholders know). Unfortunately it has to be think because of the following:

2) Older iterations of this idea usually involved the bank/card issuer supplying cards with multiple card numbers preloaded on it. This card in novel in the sense that it has some writable memory that you can personally store your existing cards to. However this involves a few elements that add to the thickness of the card: It involves a non-volatile memory module for storing the cards, it involves a volatile memory module for holding information about new cards, it involves a bluetooth module for communicating between the volatile memory and your smartphone and it involves a battery to run it all.

3) The battery is non-rechargeable (because any existing type of charging point would add too much to the thickness), so the card only lasts for a specific length of time before needing to be replace.

4) There is a move away from mag stripe everywhere in the world but the US as mag stripe is really shit compared to chip and PIN for security. Even in the US, mag stripe will be phased out within the next 10 years. This card can't even store CVC security codes (the 3 digits on the back of your normal card).

5) They have added a security feature that ties the card to your smartphone such that it becomes "deactivated" (locks the non-volatile memory) once it is loses contact with your smartphone for too long. What this means in essence is that you cant use your card without your smartphone. So that begs the question: Why would the consumer adopt this instead of adopting a smartphone based NFC wallet if its available to them? Google Wallet stores any credit card I put on it, and if the merchant doesn't support NFC Google Wallet still displays an image of the card for manual number input. You might say that a merchant might get scared away from a transaction if you ask them to do that, but a merchant might get scared away by asking them to run a unfamiliar looking unmarked black card.

Regardless of the above, it is cool stuff and there is a niche that it will be useful for, at least until chip and PIN / NFC wallets become widespread in the US. I'm working on some similar ideas so I thought I'd toss in my two cents.

Re: Meet Coin (YC W13), a startup creating a universal credit card

#170
post #50

Great technology solving what's a small, but real inconvenience with a great, simple UX and product. Just bought mine. My only question was can I use for my ATMs too (which pull card in vs. being swiped)? And the answer is yes, great FAQ by the way: https://onlycoin.com/support/faq/

The answer is actually no

Q. Where can I use Coin? A. You can use a Coin everywhere cards are accepted including dip-style card readers and ATMs. Use a Coin just like you use your cards now at gas stations, restaurants, the mall, the gym, or other places you frequent.

Dip-style card readers do not pull the card into the machine.

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