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Coin

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Re: Coin

#381

Post by PeterisP »

driverdan wrote: post #306
nlh wrote: post #167

SUPER clever idea -- kudos for that. In theory, this is awesome. As a consumer, I love it. As a merchant, however (which I am), there is no chance I would accept this. None. Unless the issuers (that is, Visa, MC, Amex) drastically change their policies, which I don't see happening anytime soon. Why? Because the issuers are very clear about a few things: When push comes to shove and it REALLY gets down to it, unless t…

You took the words out of my mouth. No merchants should accept this card unless they want to be liable for chargebacks. If this product is actually released I wouldn't be surprised if a clause is added to merchant agreements to explicitly disallow accepting this type of card.

Merchant agreements already disallow accepting it, since it is not a valid card - it's not issued by a valid issuer, it has no Visa/MC logo, it doesn't have the signature on it, etc - the 'Card Present' rules would say that this object is not a creditcard.

It's just like any cloned card - I can easily make a blank white card with a copy of my creditcard's magstripe, and technically it will work in a swipe POS-terminal, but any merchant is required to refuse such a card, and recommended to detain the card and me, if it's safe to do so, or call the cops.

Re: Coin

#382

Post by joezydeco »

superuser2 wrote: post #360
joezydeco wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what this device is proposing to do is dynamically change the magnetic orientation of the ferrite on the strip . I don't see the Coin demo guy running his card through an encoder before presenting it at the cash register. Best I can find so far is this website which kind of describes what is going on: http://www.cardlab.com/Dynamic-Magnetic-Stripe.html

Probably related to this: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/stereo-cassette-adapter-for-most...

Similar but not related.

This is more of the way it works:

https://www.google.com/patents/US7246752

Re: Coin

#383

Post by toomuchtodo »

mrinterweb wrote: post #368
toomuchtodo wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine my dismay when a coffeeshop in Amsterdam would not take my magstrip only American Express.

The different scenarios my imagination has come up with all end with you saying "mega bummer, dude".

I paid with cash in the end :) A+, would do again.

Re: Coin

#384

Post by pbreit »

omegaworks wrote: post #346
fps wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit card fraud is generally not a problem in the US for consumers or the credit card companies, the two groups that would be in a position to adopt a new credit card technology. The merchants accept all the liability in the US credit card system, and they're at the mercy of the credit card company's policies, and the consumer's desire to use their card of choice or go somewhere else. As a consumer, I avoid cash-on…

I love cash-only places. You know all your money is going to the hard working people making your sandwich instead of the big four credit card corporations.

You mean, instead of Uncle Sam.

Re: Coin

#385

Post by desas »

thevdude wrote: post #246
qq66 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire smartphone industry for the last five years has been driven by people paying hundreds of dollars to make their phones a few mm thinner. Why not their wallets? This isn't for your ATM card or your driver's license, it's for those random cards that you either never carry or fatten up your wallet.

That's why I spent a ton of money on bellroy wallet. I've got the slimmest wallet in the office!

I've got a TGT for $13, it's a band of elastic with a layer of leather stitched to it. It's that slim I often think I've lost it, until I put my hand in my pocket.

Re: Coin

#386

Post by mschuster91 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #157
kintamanimatt wrote: post #68

I wonder how this would fare in an ATM. What happens if the ATM accidentally presses the card selection button? If the ATM gobbles the card, now you've effectively lost your entire wallet. What happens if the cashier presses the card selection button while running your card too? Oops, now your boss wants to know why you've just paid for your groceries on the business credit card and why you've cloned your business cr…

Definitely agree with your points. > I wonder how this would fare in an ATM. What happens if the ATM accidentally presses the card selection button? This might be solvable by making it a capacitance-based button.

Nope, because the mechanics can also act as a "finger" in the same way these capacitance-styluses work.

Re: Coin

#387

Post by rfnslyr »

bsimpson wrote: post #332
tedivm wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many credit card companies are starting to issue new cards which are completely flat, making it impossible to make imprint. My new CapitalOne card is an example of this. Is your company planning on refusing to do business with them?

My girlfriend's family wanted to rent bikes at Blazing Saddles in SF and the cashiers there threw a big fit when they realized her card wasn't imprintable. They wouldn't photocopy it or write the number down, they just flat-out declined the business.

Their loss really.

Re: Coin

#388

Post by dakrisht »

willimholte wrote: post #353
dakrisht wrote: post #272

It's a neat concept, but I just don't think this gets anywhere. Dead in the water - as much as I would personally like to see them succeed. The biggest problems here are security. () Merchants will hate it since there is no physical imprint / swipe of the bank-issued card. This will lead to chargebacks in favor of the customer. So this alone kills this company/product. () Banks might change their terms forbidding cus…

>() The obvious issue of losing Coin and losing everything. People like backups. It's a mindset. I fail to see how Coin is a lack of backups. If having two copies of a card isn't 'having a backup' what is?

You're missing the point here.

It's about losing all of your cards when you lose one. And most people aren't going to spend money ($100) on one - yet alone TWO - cards vs. the free cards they get from their banks 24/7. If I lose my Amex, I can walk into an Amex office and get a free card in under an hour. Or have it overnighted for free.

Re: Coin

#389

Post by bennyg »

schrodinger wrote: post #361
bennyg wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about bars? A lot of bars I go to hold onto your card until you tab out. I'd hate to keep getting notifications about losing my card every time I'm out on the town. When you go back up to the bar, they ask what your name is to tab out. I didn't see anything on the Coin to do that. I also wouldn't want the bartender to press the button and change to a business account or something similar. I'm not being a hater,…

I've been to a bar recently where they didn't have to hold my card to keep a tab open. So much more convenient!

Yeah they always go both ways here - I guess too many people run off without signing in some bars.

Re: Coin

#390

Post by outworlder »

Nursie wrote: post #219
nlh wrote: post #167

SUPER clever idea -- kudos for that. In theory, this is awesome. As a consumer, I love it. As a merchant, however (which I am), there is no chance I would accept this. None. Unless the issuers (that is, Visa, MC, Amex) drastically change their policies, which I don't see happening anytime soon. Why? Because the issuers are very clear about a few things: When push comes to shove and it REALLY gets down to it, unless t…

I don't know why the US hasn't adopted EMV. It's not perfect, but it has cut down fraud massively here in Europe. They're very hard to clone (I won't say impossible, but attacks against EMV have not generally been of this nature) and the transaction records at both ends will tell you whether the actual, real card was there. The liability is more clear-cut as a result. If the customer claims the charge was unauthorise…

As a Brazilian, I think the US banks are very strange.

"Swipe" cards have been phased out years ago - you'd have to try hard to find a bank which will still issue one.

Specifically because you can no longer find ATMs which rely solely on the magstripe. Some banks have biometric fingerprint readers (where you put in your hand and it reads multiple fingerprints at the same time) in addition to the PIN code of the debit/credit card, and sometimes additional passwords.

My bank does not rely on biometrics, but in order to do any transactions, I have to enter a code generated by the bank which consists of three strings, which are prompted one at a time, displayed on screen mixed with other random and unrelated strings, so that someone peeking over my shoulder would not be able to match the button with what's on screen and finally, before the transaction is complete, the account's password. And that's with a chip.

The portable readers you can find everywhere still have magstripe readers in addition to the chip reader and will refuse to read the magnetic strip if the card contains a chip.

Those portable readers use either a 3g connection or standard dialup.

As for the physical "imprints", this is something that 30-somethings like me can barely remember.

Also related: there are no bills which can't be paid online. All banks accept them, unless specified otherwise (usually there are restriction after the expiry date). If you get a bill by mail (instead of email), you can just type the barcode. Or scan it, if you have a reader or a mobile phone with the bank's app.

The concept of getting bills by mail, and then mailing back cheques, as found in the US, is completely alien.

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