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Coin

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Re: Coin

#301
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why the US hasn't adopted EMV. It's not perfect, but it has cut down fraud massively here in Europe. They're very hard to clone (I won't say impossible, but attacks against EMV have not generally been of this nature) and the transaction records at both ends will tell you whether the actual, real card was there. The liability is more clear-cut as a result. If the customer claims the charge was unauthorise…

I want chip and pin cards SO BADLY here. Mainly because it would make my trips to Europe a lot easier, where many systems I've encountered won't work on some non-EMV cards.

More and more US banks are starting to issue cards with chip + PIN. My new American Airlines card has it as does my Amex Blue.

Re: Coin

#302
post #219
post #167

SUPER clever idea -- kudos for that. In theory, this is awesome. As a consumer, I love it. As a merchant, however (which I am), there is no chance I would accept this. None. Unless the issuers (that is, Visa, MC, Amex) drastically change their policies, which I don't see happening anytime soon. Why? Because the issuers are very clear about a few things: When push comes to shove and it REALLY gets down to it, unless t…

I don't know why the US hasn't adopted EMV. It's not perfect, but it has cut down fraud massively here in Europe. They're very hard to clone (I won't say impossible, but attacks against EMV have not generally been of this nature) and the transaction records at both ends will tell you whether the actual, real card was there. The liability is more clear-cut as a result. If the customer claims the charge was unauthorise…

As I Canadian I also read this with a little sadness. It's something I have always wanted ... but now someone made it just as we're close to finishing the transition to EMV.

It can actually be a bit tricky to use my company card to buy lunch at restaurants sometimes because "there's no chip".

Their FAQ says future versions of Coin will support EMV, but I'm not familiar enough with the hardware to know how difficult that is.

Would be good for those stupid loyalty/membership cards I guess, if you are good with explaining what the hell this weird card looking thing is and why it will work like the normal cards every single damn time you use it.

Re: Coin

#303
iPhone only, no chip and pin, won't work with any cash machine in the UK, no apparent protection against people skimming random cards (I'm suddenly very suspicious of anyone putting my card anywhere near an iPhone) AND it stores all your card details on their servers for no apparent reason?

Where can I sign up?

Re: Coin

#304
post #167

SUPER clever idea -- kudos for that. In theory, this is awesome. As a consumer, I love it. As a merchant, however (which I am), there is no chance I would accept this. None. Unless the issuers (that is, Visa, MC, Amex) drastically change their policies, which I don't see happening anytime soon. Why? Because the issuers are very clear about a few things: When push comes to shove and it REALLY gets down to it, unless t…

I go weeks at a time without getting asked for identification when paying with a credit card. Most merchants will happily swipe the coin and move on with their life. Those that question it can still check ID or make a copy of the driver's license. This is a sweet product and I can't wait to dump the 7 cards in my wallet. One extra backup card, a good thing to have regardless, will take care of the occasional merchant…

Merchants aren't allowed by their merchant agreements to require your id in order to accept a credit card. They are supposed to check your signature. https://www.privacyrights.org/ar/Alert-FS15.htm

Re: Coin

#306
post #167

SUPER clever idea -- kudos for that. In theory, this is awesome. As a consumer, I love it. As a merchant, however (which I am), there is no chance I would accept this. None. Unless the issuers (that is, Visa, MC, Amex) drastically change their policies, which I don't see happening anytime soon. Why? Because the issuers are very clear about a few things: When push comes to shove and it REALLY gets down to it, unless t…

You took the words out of my mouth. No merchants should accept this card unless they want to be liable for chargebacks. If this product is actually released I wouldn't be surprised if a clause is added to merchant agreements to explicitly disallow accepting this type of card.

Re: Coin

#307
post #167

SUPER clever idea -- kudos for that. In theory, this is awesome. As a consumer, I love it. As a merchant, however (which I am), there is no chance I would accept this. None. Unless the issuers (that is, Visa, MC, Amex) drastically change their policies, which I don't see happening anytime soon. Why? Because the issuers are very clear about a few things: When push comes to shove and it REALLY gets down to it, unless t…

I work for a merchant also... high volume low ticket. My thought is: Since most of our customer transactions (swipes) occur without any cashier involvement - how would V/MC know that the "real" card wasn't present?

Re: Coin

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> less cost == lower fees In a perfect world...

We've used pin (and now pin+chip) as long as we use cards.. I pay exactly 0% transaction fees and only a few euro per quarter. Merchants pay exactly 0% transactions fees and a small monthly subscription. It just works.

>Merchants pey exactly 0% transactions fees and a small monthly subscription. //

Where's that?

Re: Coin

#309
post #275

It's a neat concept, but I just don't think this gets anywhere. Dead in the water - as much as I would personally like to see them succeed. The biggest problems here are security. () Merchants will hate it since there is no physical imprint / swipe of the bank-issued card. This will lead to chargebacks in favor of the customer. So this alone kills this company/product. () Banks might change their terms forbidding cus…

If you've paid any attention to the NSA situation within the past 6-months, ordinary/average consumers (not the HN crowd) are becoming weary of cloud/hosted service. Quite the opposite. The HN crowd is becoming wary of cloud services, ordinary/average consumers aren't even aware of the NSA relevations.

Anyone with half a brain knows the NSA and other agencies have been capturing data from telcos for decades. That's the nature of their business. And frankly, given the world we live in and the amount of sick fucks roaming the land, I don't blame them for doing some intelligence work. PRISM, MUSCULAR and whatever else we don't know of (yet) are without a doubt abuses of power and they have simply gone way too far. So this is wrong and needs to be changed. But the Internet will never be the Internet of the 90s.

Companies like AT&T have dedicated rooms for the NSA with spliced fiber to dumb daily terabits of data to. For decades. This is nothing new.

with regards to payments and consumer awareness of breaches and security issues, well, consumers today are becoming more AWARE of these facts brought on primarily by the Snowden leaks. Sure, a lot are still clueless and that won't change but there is still an inherent reluctance to trust new products/services/technologies especially when it comes to banking and finance.

The status quo are not early adopters. Never have been, never will be. The mainstream products are the success. When you sign up for an Amex or a Chase card or whatever bullshit they're selling on TV, they sell a sense of security, confidence, TRUST.

The problem with a startup like Coin (aside from the dozen or so issues mentioned above by me and a few others reading the thread now) is a narrow focus. They aren't really solving a problem, rather they're creating many more.

They've created a product that a handful of people in the SF Mission district will use to buy a $7 coffee and a croissant while they Tweet about it (from the Coin app hopefully). But this focus forgets the rest of the world (which is a big and lucrative place).

I think this is the problem with a lot of Bay Area startups. They're so caught up in the YC dinners, the SF startup scene, the networking, and the conferences that they limit their focus to a very narrow audience.

Re: Coin

#310
I think this highlights how insecure cards are that just rely on magnetic strip information rather than something like EMV (chip & pin). It should not be possible, or at least extremely difficult, to clone a card.

I'm from the UK and EMV (Called Chip & PIN) has been around for years now. No-one issues non-EMV cards anymore, except perhaps for cards designed exclusively for use in ATMs. Something like Coin would not be possible and, frankly, I'm happy this is the case. While having to carry multiple cards around is not an optimal solution I'd much prefer this over the ability for my cards to be trivially cloned.

Aside from the security issues how would this work in relation to fraud with your card issuer? I'm not sure if it is different in the US but if you are the victim of fraud and you were not seriously negligent (i.e stored your PIN in the same wallet as your card) then the issuing bank will refund any money fraudulently taken/spent. Assuming something similar operates in the US, would using this service give the issuing banks a excuse to hold you responsible for fraud? I'd also wonder if you were breaking any agreements you have with your bank in relation to your use of the cards they issue you with.

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