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Meet Coin (YC W13), a startup creating a universal credit card

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Re: Meet Coin (YC W13), a startup creating a universal credit card

#141

Post by dangrossman »

cstross wrote: post #138
dangrossman wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They get around it by being in the US, where there's virtually no chip-and-pin cards or readers.

Aren't Visa and MC going chip-and-pin in the USA next year?

No, not next year, and not in any meaningful way until 2015 at earliest. They only required backend processing networks be capable of handling chip-and-pin transactions by mid-2013, which is a prerequisite for any acquirer/merchant using that network actually putting a reader in any store. Between then and 2015, nothing changes except recommendations that if a merchant is replacing their POS equipment, they choose one that supports reading chips, and that banks start issuing more cards with chips. Only in 2015 will Visa start incentivizing switching to chip-and-pin readers by, for example, removing the requirement that merchants validate PCI compliance if at least 75% of their transactions annually are chip-and-pin instead of swiped.

Re: Meet Coin (YC W13), a startup creating a universal credit card

#142

Post by dangrossman »

sixQuarks wrote: post #127

The revenue model is out of whack. The average consumer is not going to pay $100 for something like this.

The average consumer is not an early adopter of brand new technology products. Early adopters pay higher prices for new products to come to market and, eventually, reach sufficient scale to lower costs for mass market.

Re: Meet Coin (YC W13), a startup creating a universal credit card

#143

Post by refurb »

msbarnett wrote: post #134
chollida1 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They get around it by being in the US, where there's virtually no chip-and-pin cards or readers Really? I'm very surprised. Canada has moved over many years ago. I thought we'd be following the US here. Is chip and pin in the works? ie is this a stop gap for the next year or two until its rolled out or is the US just not bothering with it?

> Really? I'm very surprised. Canada has moved over many years ago. I thought we'd be following the US here. The US banking system is incredibly antiquated compared to Canada's (and much of the rest of the world's).

That's because you need Royal Assent in order to be a bank in Canada. Unlike the US that has hundreds (if not thousands) of banks, Canada only has 5 (or is it 6 now?) massive banks.

Having only a few big banks makes it much easier to roll out new technology.

Re: Meet Coin (YC W13), a startup creating a universal credit card

#145

Post by dangrossman »

sjtgraham wrote: post #38
mikelbring wrote: post #22

A lot of places ID you when you use a card. I wonder how that would work. I don't see a name on it.

Requiring ID is against the rules of every major card network; so are things like adding surcharges, and having minimum transaction amounts. Think about it, anything that adds friction to using a card makes it more likely you might use cash, eating into the card network's revenues. Anything that does that is likely to be frowned upon or prohibited. Report merchants that do that. For Visa, call your card issuer. For A…

None of that is true.

The card brands explicitly train merchants to check signatures against government-issued ID. [1] [2]

Card brands may not prohibit minimum charges per federal law. [3]

Visa and MasterCard agreed to allow credit surcharges in a settlement agreement for a long-standing class-action suit by retailers. [4]

1: http://usa.visa.com/merchants/risk_management/card_present.h...

2: http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchant/pdf/Unsigned_Credit_Ca...

3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodd%E2%80%93Frank_Wall_Street_...

4: http://usa.visa.com/personal/using_visa/checkout_fees/

Re: Meet Coin (YC W13), a startup creating a universal credit card

#148

Post by cptskippy »

lambda wrote: post #126

Hmm, pretty neat hack! I like the idea a lot. I'm disappointed that they didn't mention that this is hooked to an online service until you get well into their FAQ: Maintaining the integrity of your Coin’s data is critical to your peace of mind. That’s why our servers, mobile apps and the Coin itself use 128-bit or 256-bit encryption for all storage and communication (http and bluetooth). Additionally Coin can alert y…

Q. What if I lose my phone? A. When you pair your Coin with your phone, it is associated with your account and not that specific phone/device. If you lose your phone, it is possible to pair your Coin with your new phone after installing the Coin mobile app and signing in.

Re: Meet Coin (YC W13), a startup creating a universal credit card

#149

Post by PeterisP »

wtvanhest wrote: post #136
PeterisP wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atually, I wouldn't be surprised if the currently existing rules would already bar merchants from taking such a card - technically, this is a cloned card that is not issued by a member of MC or VISA; and there are security rules/training for identifying cloned (blank) cards and refusing/detaining them as fraudulent.

Yeah, actually after I made the comment I realize that that issue of acceptance is probably the reason they are selling this on kickstarter instead of a VC backing it. It may have been identified as a risk during YC and now they are still trying to make it work. I hope the founder comments on this point. If it is usable and merchant contracts are in place for long enough, this is really cool. If there is a whole in t…

In theory, merchants should recognize the Coin as not a valid card according to http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchant/pdf/BM-Entire_Manual_p... part 8.4.2.

Coin apparently aren't a MC/Visa issuer, so they can't claim to issue a valid card or mobile payment device. In addition, merchants are supposed to judge cards by the system logo - and Coin can't have MC or Visa logo if they aren't an issuer, and certainly no card is allowed to have both MC and Visa logo (even if they would technically support both), MC/Visa prohibit that.

On an anecdotal basis, the recommendation given to cashiers when teaching them how to handle cards and detect fraud is not really in-depth but more or less "if you see something suspicious that is not a normal card, call the cops", or something like that.

Re: Meet Coin (YC W13), a startup creating a universal credit card

#150

Post by monoglotmark »

lambda wrote: post #126

Hmm, pretty neat hack! I like the idea a lot. I'm disappointed that they didn't mention that this is hooked to an online service until you get well into their FAQ: Maintaining the integrity of your Coin’s data is critical to your peace of mind. That’s why our servers, mobile apps and the Coin itself use 128-bit or 256-bit encryption for all storage and communication (http and bluetooth). Additionally Coin can alert y…

I think the online service has the potential to be the most valuable part of this whole product. All your transactions, across multiple accounts, tracked in one place allowing breakdowns of your spending and clarity on our outgoings. I also see a big win here for Coin, think Mint but with an opportunity to also suggest better products & services to spend your money on (since they'll know almost everything you're buying) - a marketer's dream.
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