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New antibiotic kills off persistent infections

phenomena.nationalgeographic.com

21–30 of 86 posts

Re: New antibiotic kills off persistent infections

#21
post #13

Some background, based on quick research, not personal knowledge, so please correct if anything's wrong: This class of antibiotics, ADEP, was discovered as a naturally produced substance isolated from the bacteria Streptomyces hawaiiensis in 1985 ( Streptomyces has been a fertile source of naturally occurring antibiotics). After some promising results, there was work on synthetically synthesizing it and producing "op…

Excellent summary. I look forward to when our knowledge of cell biology is so complete that there isn't any time wasted on 'trying to understand its mechanism' rather we can explain such mechanism from first principles and know with certainly not only how it works, but how to adjust it to work most effectively to our benefit.

Re: New antibiotic kills off persistent infections

#23
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that it's about profits when pharma is involved, but you are wrong about the reason (otherwise vaccines would not exist). I can tell you from firsthand experience that the length of time someone is on a drug makes almost no difference in where research priorities are. The primary issue with antibiotics is that since the late 1990's, if you succeed, and you develop the best antibiotic the world has ever s…

Do you know if NIH uses any of their funding in a DARPA like manner?

They do this to a certain extent, but the problem here is that the "R" part of "R&D" is not really at issue. While there's a lot of focus in the popular press on "finding" new antibiotics, that part can be addressed by basic research grants. I don't believe we're wanting for proof of concept kinds of things. Unlike with engineering, where once you've got a proof of concept, you can refine and iterate to make it production quality, biology is completely arbitrary.

The issue comes with the "D" part of R&D. That is the expensive part with drugs because you start having to do very tightly controlled animal model studies progressing further into clinical trials with humans. The popular notion that you "discover" a drug is not how things work in reality. Often you discover a whole raft of closely related chemical entities that appear to do what you think they do. You tweak based on further studies in order to improve efficacy and safety. But the system is sort of nondeterministic in the sense that even altering the structure slightly often has knock-on effects you can't predict. Assuming you get something decent, that's what gets made into the an actual medicine. There's a whole branch of applied chemistry that specializes in this called medicinal chemistry. In many cases, you'll read about some promising new antibiotic that has been discovered in an academic lab, but once the chemists take a look at it, you realize there's no way to make a drug out of it. The reasons can be any or all of: the therapeutic dose would be too high, it blows out the liver, it can't be made into pill, the compound is unstable and can't have a good shelf life, it can't be taken orally, etc... Working out all those kinds of problems has always been the realm of pharmas and biotech startups. Academics aren't interested in that stuff because it's not basic research, it's highly applied and is mostly trial and error based on decades of doing this kind of work.

At a macro-level, this is fundamentally what ails the entire pharma sector right now. The development part of making drugs is so expensive and such a complete and utter crap-shoot, that few new drugs of any sort are actually being produced. The last decade has been one of prolonged decline in the industry in terms of truly new drugs and there is no obvious mechanism available to us to make it less so.

Re: New antibiotic kills off persistent infections

#25
post #18
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This won't completely replace traditional antibiotics. As the article states this acts on Gram positive persister cells (a very specific group). The coming storm is from Gram negative bacteria such as Klebsiella, Actinetobacter and Pseudomonas. There is actually very little activity occurring in the field of antibiotic drug discovery and you identified the issue; no money in drugs that someone takes for 14 days and s…

You're right that it's about profits when pharma is involved, but you are wrong about the reason (otherwise vaccines would not exist). I can tell you from firsthand experience that the length of time someone is on a drug makes almost no difference in where research priorities are. The primary issue with antibiotics is that since the late 1990's, if you succeed, and you develop the best antibiotic the world has ever s…

Vaccines are a bit of a different class as some are exempt from adverse reaction lawsuits and therefore risk is reduced for the companies manufacturing the vaccine.

I think your assessment that my argument is "wrong" is inappropriate. You'll see that my argument is supported by the WHO (Bulletin of the World Health Organization 2011;89:88–89).

>Another reason is commercial. Antibiotics, in particular, have a poor return on investment because they are taken for a short period of time and cure their target disease. In contrast, drugs that treat chronic illness, such as high blood pressure, are taken daily for the rest of a patient’s life. “Companies have figured out that they make a lot more money selling the latter drugs than they do selling antibiotics,” Spellberg says, highlighting the lack of incentive for companies to develop antibiotics.

Re: New antibiotic kills off persistent infections

#26
post #10
post #2

It's nice to know that despite all the alarmist articles about the end of antibiotics, good progress is being made. If this works, it could completely replace traditional antibiotics. In that case, I could see dozens of new drugs in this class developed by the antibiotic companies. This would be similar to the race to develop new antidepressants, HIV drugs, and erectile dysfunction drugs. Any drug you have to take ov…

This won't completely replace traditional antibiotics. As the article states this acts on Gram positive persister cells (a very specific group). The coming storm is from Gram negative bacteria such as Klebsiella, Actinetobacter and Pseudomonas. There is actually very little activity occurring in the field of antibiotic drug discovery and you identified the issue; no money in drugs that someone takes for 14 days and s…

Sounds like something the Gates Foundation should get on.

Re: New antibiotic kills off persistent infections

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have had one of those for almost a decade now. Sinuses?

No, just an ear infection. More annoying than anything. Although it does supposedly carry some risk of hearing loss should it come back hard.

Wait, how did you figure this out? I worry about having some sort of chronic infection..

Re: New antibiotic kills off persistent infections

#29

The most understated portion of the article is that there is a method discovered that can kill biofilms. The discovery of new antibiotics and delivery techniques leaves me less optimistic for long-term change in the availability of life-saving antibiotics. I suspect bacteria can, and will, evolve around almost any mitigating technique we develop. Yet I'm optimistic, because tools that crack biofilms are a new are of…

>I suspect bacteria can, and will, evolve around almost any mitigating technique we develop.

That's a baseless suspicion. Bacteria are ultimately bound by physical laws, and while they've proven resilient, there's no reason to suggest we will be unable to develop the means to annihilate them at will. Humans are creative - bacteria just evolve fast.

I agree about the importance of the biofilm claim, but what they don't explain is how they actually achieve this. Their method of disabling that particular protein doesn't directly address the problem of the biofilms having a less-permeable extracellular matrix.

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