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Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

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Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#91

Post by hackerboos »

this_user wrote: post #83
rdl wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Hong Kong (probably my favorite city in the world), but in the case of Singapore and Malaysia (which were the most closely tied), I'd rather be from the worst-off group in Singapore (Malay?) than from the best off group in Singapore (politically connected and Malay, except maybe from the top few families), so a lot of it was due to PAP and post-1965 actions. If you're Chinese or Indian it's even more clear whi…

It's easy to forget and hard to imagine from a 2013 point of view, but South Korea was among the poorest countries in the world only decades earlier.

That's what happens when you ignore the IMF (well until '97) and have the death penalty for capital flight.

Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#92

Post by gtuckerkellogg »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #84
gtuckerkellogg wrote: post #53

I'm an American who has lived in Singapore for almost nine years, in two very different jobs, in two very different parts of the city-state. Singapore has a lot of challenges, but the oversimplifications and generalisations in this glib article don't do Singapore or Singaporeans any favours. (I've been here long enough that my spell-check is set to British English). Let's take National Service (NS). Dover writes: "af…

gtuckerkellogg, thanks for your posting. I'm curious -- have you learned Mandarin or Malay language during your stay, enough to communicate extensively? It was my experience living in Taiwan for two years that language is a significant requirement for understanding the culture, even when English is commonly spoken among the educated classes. In my opinion, a month really isn't long enough to evaluate a country, even…

I've learned to speak Mandarin, but not Malay. I can read and write enough to read the Chinese newspaper and sing karaoke. It's helpful: it breaks down a lot of cultural barriers, and makes chatting with cab drivers more fun. It also makes the Singlish more understandable. There's a lot of Singaporean English that borrows from Chinese word order, which in western English sounds harsh even though the Chinese word order (in Chinese) uses it as an expression of politeness. E.g., "Go to lunch, can or not?"

Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#93

Post by prewett »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #88
yardie wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American living in France, this is how I feel about the French. But I've heard the opposite from other brits about Americans. We're too friggin nosey. We want to know where you live, where you went to school, what you do (this is really big blunder a lot of Americans make), and why you're here.

Agreed, I have been told by Europeans that it's not common in their region to ask what you do for a living. It's as though they'd rather talk about real things rather than mundane money-related humdrum topics. It's rather refreshing, actually. Quite the opposite from Taiwan where I lived for a couple of years. People would ask questions that in the West would be considered incredibly intrusive: how old are you, what…

Asking what you do is not asking about "mundane money-related humdrum topics." It is asking "who are you?" "What do like to do so much you spend all day at it?" At least, that's what it is when I ask it.

Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#94

Post by msohcw »

twelvechairs wrote: post #12

how about 'because it is an authoritarian single party state'?

As in Plato's five regimes, democracy is only very slightly better than tyranny/anarchy. Authoritarian single party state can also be rephrased into functioning semi-aristocracy. All governments have advantages and flaws, it's better to compare them not on a theoretical demonized basis but on the output and tangible effects. For example, economically Singapore succeeds fantastically, but culturally it's missing something.

Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#95

Post by sleepyhead »

rfnslyr wrote: post #90
sleepyhead wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An I expressed my opinion. I think you are the one who needs to calm down given your words.

The OP posts about his direct experience in Singapore which are his reasons for leaving. You posted reasons for not coming into the US, that would not affect OP. Is he going to Guantanamo Bay? No. Does he murder civilians? No. Is America a beautiful and exciting country? Yes. It's the government and military which is fucked. If the OP's points for leaving were political, you would make some sense.

Oh did I upset an American - poor you. I pointed out that all countries have flaws. I used the US as an example because OP is an American. Most of the blog post is about government policies so you don't make much sense.

Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#96

Post by emblebi »

threeseed wrote: post #34
emblebi wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is the real reason from the article: "I describe my time living in Singapore as sterile. Nothing particularly bad happened but it wasn’t particularly good either. Daily life was convenient but it was only the bare minimum of living. I had everything I needed to be comfortable but I didn’t have anything that inspired me. Even though there wasn’t a language barrier, I encountered a hefty communication barrier.…

I laughed a bit when I read that paragraph. Because I am sure it is the current/future dream of most of the people on HN to work for a big internet company in Silicon Valley. Which of course means long hours with your free time spent talking about work. The fact is that in "international" cities like Singapore, London, Sydney, Paris etc people do work long hours and in their spare time often talk about what they are…

There's a big difference between Singapore and London. In many other countries, you can move between cities to find the place that fit you better. From London, you can go to say, Manchester, Edinburgh, or even the rest of EU is open to you.

In Singapore, you can move between neighbourhoods. The neighbourhoods are more or less the same. Once you've lived there for a while, you go to the same place that you've been to hundreds (or maybe thousands) of times after work. It all got really really boring after a while. The typical (expected) long working hours in the society doesn't help either. All you do is work, eat and sleep. And shopping. After 10 years, I too left and would never return.

Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#97

Post by creamyhorror »

msohcw wrote: post #87
creamyhorror wrote: post #55

I've lived in Singapore all my life save for a few years in the US. This article's points are weakly argued, and Singapore's staidness is entirely a first-world problem which people from some neighbouring countries wouldn't find much of a problem at all. But on the whole, I'd agree with the author that Singapore is lacking in quite a few ways compared to the top cities (economically or culturally) of the world. Off t…

Thanks for speaking some sense. I suspect the author got the notion of Singaporean pride wrong. We're far more prideful when we feel attacked or maligned by foreigners, despite the day to day lamentations. You've stated arguments I agree with, but I do honestly feel that you're overgeneralizing to a large extent. I think it helps if we consider again what you mentioned about size. Singapore has a relatively small pop…

> My guess is that the detriment is at least an n^2 term, with less sharing of ideas, interaction and encouragement to pursue risk.

Absolutely. That's part of the reason for the lower level of risk-taking and innovation here. It boils down to having a small population.

> As a student, I increasingly see people pursuing the entrepreneurship and more risky careers, rather than "selling out".

Yes, this is definitely a trend, and a good one. I was talking more about the past. The pressure to go for fancy careers is still high, though - except that banking and consulting have supplanted medicine and law to some extent.

> It just so happens that it's more common in other countries because of larger populations

You seem to be arguing that it's not our fault that we have less risk-taking and innovation here, it's just our small population that's the problem. Well, I don't entirely disagree - I think our size is half the problem, and the other half is our society's historical evolution (and cultural roots). It doesn't change the fact that our market size limits our entrepreneurial prospects - unless we learn to sell to big, lucrative markets like Israeli startups did.

> we had Creative and Sembcorp/KeppelCorp

Creative was our sole shining star, and now it's essentially gone, massively outcompeted by Apple. SembCorp, PSA, Surbana and the like are ex-national corporations (IIRC) that I don't consider examples of entrepreneurship - they were built in the mould of efficiently-run government departments from the start. I do like the fact that Charles & Keith, Hyflux, BreadTalk, et al are seeing some success overseas. Still, we don't have a Sony or Samsung.

> Our research institutions ASTAR focus on the commercialization of technology

They didn't use to, and now they're driving the real scientists and big names away with their renewed focus on commercialisation. Honestly they should never have focused on basic research in the first place, but instead on commercialising technologies from around the world.

I like your optimism that things are changing - that's the spirit we need to take more adventurous paths. The more people who want to achieve big things and don't want to settle for the usual routes, the better.

To our foreign friends, our young generation is pretty alright.

Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#98

Post by buster »

azatris wrote: post #77
buster wrote: post #52

I don't get it... actually my dream would be to work in Singapore and to be able to get to Bali or Kuala Lumpur or Thailand or Australia in such a short time is just perfect. You have a great work place but the possibility to experience very different countries.

I am currently residing in Singapore and in my opinion - there is not really much to see here and in the surrounding areas, if you are here for more than a month. I encourage you, before nosediving here for a longer period (like I do for 9 months), visit the place and make sure you really like it here. I do not, as my view of Singapore highly correlates with the article.

I think the main problem for the author is that singapore is to clean and to un-exciting for him, because everyone just works and is in line. But my point is to have a good working environment (evidently one can work quite well in SG) but look around for the non-working time.

Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#99

Post by pacofvf »

Well, look at the Happy Planet Index, the top choices are not countries that are known for having great development ratings.

1. Costa Rica 2. Vietnam 3. Colombia 4. Belize 5. El Salvador

I have to admit that I don't believe people in Belize or El Salvador are happier than say Mexico or Panamá just to name a few neighbors. It's weird how the first "Industrialized" country is Israel at 15th place, and the next is New Zealand at 28th followed by Norway. Also most of the top 30 are latinamerican countries, so maybe is just a cultural thing to be always happy.

Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#100

Post by collyw »

dualogy wrote: post #69
tlarkworthy wrote: post #60

"In my experience, people were polite but conversations rarely moved past surface-level niceties." As a Britain who lived in America, this is how I felt about Americans. I think its more of a cultural illusion.

As a German who lived in Britain, this is how I felt about Brits :D It's a neverending circle..

Did you live in the south east of England by any chance? It gets better the further from London you get.
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