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Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

wikileaks.org

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Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#21

Post by bzmwillemsen »

zxcdw wrote: post #16
retube wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very naive and idealistic position. Governments often and rightly have genuine reasons for keeping things secret - as do other institutions, businesses and indeed individual people.

Apart from "obvious" national security in the name of TERRORISM [1], what are such reasons? [1]: http://www.gwern.net/Terrorism%20is%20not%20about%20Terror

With respect to government contracts: It would really hurt a company if their detail pricing scheme was released, as a competitor could easily undercut if they had access to that information.

With respect to court documents: It could result is someone getting hurt or a mis-trial due to outside influences (ie. Rob Ford video)

There are obviously many reasons...

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#22

Post by davidw »

zxcdw wrote: post #16
retube wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very naive and idealistic position. Governments often and rightly have genuine reasons for keeping things secret - as do other institutions, businesses and indeed individual people.

Apart from "obvious" national security in the name of TERRORISM [1], what are such reasons? [1]: http://www.gwern.net/Terrorism%20is%20not%20about%20Terror

Obvious one comes to mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Federal_Witness_P...

It's not hard to think of others.

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#23

Post by piqufoh »

dubcanada wrote: post #15
mikevm wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think that there are legitimate reasons for governments to keep certain things secret?

Nope I wanna know about ALIENS! Do they exist?

Careful! That got Gary McKinnon indicted by a federal grand jury in Virginia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon ...

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#24

Post by lttlrck »

AlexanderDhoore wrote: post #6

I really, really hope the culture of leaking information becomes so strong that governments will become incapable of keeping anything a secret. That would give me some hope for the future. Anyone that leaks information is a fucking hero. Edit: Stop attacking me personally. I'm talking about the government's privacy here, not mine (nor anyone else's). I actually think my privacy will improve if this becomes a reality.

Secrets have existed since the dawn of man, your hopes of eradicating them are naive.

How would you propose that "culture" be contained within the sphere of government? It clearly could not, it would spread to corporate and private spheres of life (if it didn't start here). It sounds dangerously close to a 100% surveillance society. How lovely.

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#25

Post by derekp7 »

zxcdw wrote: post #16
retube wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very naive and idealistic position. Governments often and rightly have genuine reasons for keeping things secret - as do other institutions, businesses and indeed individual people.

Apart from "obvious" national security in the name of TERRORISM [1], what are such reasons? [1]: http://www.gwern.net/Terrorism%20is%20not%20about%20Terror

I REALLY hope they keep my personal login credentials for various gov web sites secret. Along with any other personal information they have on file.

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#26

Post by cbr »

bzmwillemsen wrote: post #21
zxcdw wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from "obvious" national security in the name of TERRORISM [1], what are such reasons? [1]: http://www.gwern.net/Terrorism%20is%20not%20about%20Terror

With respect to government contracts: It would really hurt a company if their detail pricing scheme was released, as a competitor could easily undercut if they had access to that information. With respect to court documents: It could result is someone getting hurt or a mis-trial due to outside influences (ie. Rob Ford video) There are obviously many reasons...

    It would really hurt a company if their detail pricing
    scheme was released, as a competitor could easily
    undercut if they had access to that information
If every company's pricing were public, wouldn't we just have healthy competition?

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#27

Post by ssmoot »

retube wrote: post #11
AlexanderDhoore wrote: post #6

I really, really hope the culture of leaking information becomes so strong that governments will become incapable of keeping anything a secret. That would give me some hope for the future. Anyone that leaks information is a fucking hero. Edit: Stop attacking me personally. I'm talking about the government's privacy here, not mine (nor anyone else's). I actually think my privacy will improve if this becomes a reality.

That is a very naive and idealistic position. Governments often and rightly have genuine reasons for keeping things secret - as do other institutions, businesses and indeed individual people.

He/She is clearly referring to Whistle Blowers.

All the ridiculous, obtuse comments just to feel superior. If you can't attack the actual message, then impeach the character?

Grow up.

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#28

Post by nikcub »

AlexanderDhoore wrote: post #6

I really, really hope the culture of leaking information becomes so strong that governments will become incapable of keeping anything a secret. That would give me some hope for the future. Anyone that leaks information is a fucking hero. Edit: Stop attacking me personally. I'm talking about the government's privacy here, not mine (nor anyone else's). I actually think my privacy will improve if this becomes a reality.

> governments will become incapable of keeping anything a secret.

That isn't the goal, not for privacy advocates nor for Wikileaks or Julian Assange, who said:

"The goal is justice, the method is transparency. It's important not to confuse the goal and the method."

Advocates of individual privacy rely on the government, as a service provider, to keep secrets in order to protect the rights of individuals.

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#29

Post by simgidacav »

TomGullen wrote: post #5
stevengg wrote: post #2

Any good overviews of this leak yet?

There's a lot of information there... probably take a few days.

I hope someone will post tl;dr indeed. This is like reading licenses. No wonder there's people who just blindly accepts everything without reading. I love when there's a blog post and they put tl;dr on head.

On the other hand, by sticking to the tl;dr you accept the version the non-lazy guy will give you.

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#30

Post by twoodfin »

ihsw wrote: post #13
pvnick wrote: post #10

This revelation proves Wikileaks is stil alive and relevant. I hope they see a renewed jolt of donations and interest. This is the organization of heroes that helped get Snowden to safety. Also, I'm getting sick and tired of our "leaders" attempting to legislate free speech and intellectual property in secret through anti-democratic means. It's disgusting. Edit: second paragraph

The problem with these kinds of things is that the document might be watermarked to obviate who leaked it. It follows the same vein as "spying on allies" which -- until recently -- was tin-foil-hat conspiracy territory. The political fallout will not be minimal, and it will not be kept secret.

It follows the same vein as "spying on allies" which -- until recently -- was tin-foil-hat conspiracy territory.

Not at all. Nations have been spying on their allies since there have been nations and spies. Anyone "shocked" by those revelations is either putting on a show or rather naive.

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