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Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

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Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#51

I've been working in singapore for four months this year, and I'm based out of Redwood City, California (not really a bastion of culture) but originally from Vancouver, British Columbia (Canada). I absolutely understand what the author was writing about - I really love this country - it's clean, safe, really clean, has really affordable food and incredible transportation system. The buses are actually worth using, an…

I've only visited for a weekend and was utterly prepared to hate the crap out of Singapore. We're not up to a good start when your landing card spells out in bold and red DEATH TO DRUG TRAFFICKERS (a bit more eloquent, but that's the gist of it).

Reality, however, is not quite as black and white and - although I would never want to live there for an extended period - I left the country with rather mixed feelings.

Let me pull out one example that really, really impressed me.

Near the Marina Sands (the $5B casino complex, which actually cost S$8B according to Wikipedia) they built the Gardens by the Bay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardens_by_the_Bay) for something above S$ 1B.

Those gardens, which are beautiful and very impressive; an oasis of calm and serenity in a bustling metropolis are built on reclaimed land. In essence: some of the most expensive ground anywhere in the world.

Just imagine the mega mall, the super hotel, or another office complex that could have been built on that land. And they "waste" it for a damn garden.

I thought that they did that despite the intense commercial pressure is immensely cool and is a really nice example for what are some great aspects about this city.

Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#52
I don't get it... actually my dream would be to work in Singapore and to be able to get to Bali or Kuala Lumpur or Thailand or Australia in such a short time is just perfect. You have a great work place but the possibility to experience very different countries.

Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#53
I'm an American who has lived in Singapore for almost nine years, in two very different jobs, in two very different parts of the city-state. Singapore has a lot of challenges, but the oversimplifications and generalisations in this glib article don't do Singapore or Singaporeans any favours. (I've been here long enough that my spell-check is set to British English).

Let's take National Service (NS). Dover writes: "after graduating, every citizen is required to do active service in the military." This is wrong on at least three points, which is impressive for a sentence that short: 1) NS is not required of all citizens, only men; 2) NS is also required of male permanent residents who turn 18 in Singapore, and 3) it's an age requirement, not a graduation requirement.

He goes on to write that "pride is the result" of the NS requirement, in that part of the article that seems devoted to unqualified praise of Singapore's success. Really? Pride alone? Yes, male Singaporeans are proud of their service in NS, but plenty — especially younger Singaporeans — also resent it, resent the foreigners and women who don't have to do it and who they believe get an upper leg in society as a result. I've had Singaporean men explain away sexual harassment of women — harassment they witnessed first hand — on the grounds of the hazing they received during NS. If "sense of pride" is the only thing Dover has to say about NS in Singapore, even after months of living here, I'm not surprised he never had deep conversations with any Singaporeans.

Pro tip, Dover: there are better ways to investigate peoples' heritage than walking around asking people about their heritage. And if you do ask, and the answer you get is "what heritage?" and a laugh? Well, that may not mean what you think it means.

There's a lot happening in Singapore. It's an evolving place, with a growing civil society, increasing activism, growing nationalism and anti-foreigner sentiment, brutal competitiveness (the Singlish word is "kiasu", which is a Hokkien term that translates as "afraid to lose"), a terrible Gini coefficient, complex underlying racial tensions, and some absurd historical hard-edged nanny-state reflexes. There are a lot of things Singapore needs, but the dynamics are complex, not ripe for banal oversimplification.

Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#54
post #37
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the Israelis or Swiss could come in to fix the Singaporean national service system. It is ineffective and inefficient -- the NS system produces a subpar military (the full timers are quite good though), and it provides very limited benefits to the individual. A shorter period of training, a competitive bidding process to get into elite units like Israel's 8200, and a longer term commitment with the same people…

Getting the Israelis visibly and heavily involved in the Singaporean military is just asking for trouble in the region, given the nature of the country's neighbours. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–Singapore_relations

You must admit it would make there quite a bit more "exciting" though.

Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#55
I've lived in Singapore all my life save for a few years in the US.

This article's points are weakly argued, and Singapore's staidness is entirely a first-world problem which people from some neighbouring countries wouldn't find much of a problem at all. But on the whole, I'd agree with the author that Singapore is lacking in quite a few ways compared to the top cities (economically or culturally) of the world. Off the top of my head:

1) A conservative, risk-averse, wealth-focused culture of keeping up with the Joneses. This is mostly the modern result of traditional Chinese competitiveness and desire for 'face'. Parents live for their children - you want your kids to do well so you can proudly tell others about them, and because you expect to support you financially when you're old. You pressure them to take the well-respected and profitable route in life, and you prohibit them from taking the risky path to inevitable ruin as a starving artist, etc.

The children then go into executive jobs, trying to be managers, avoiding the low-paid engineering/technical positions (programming, pfft, that's for cheap foreign labour), and not caring very much about things that don't have an immediate impact on their careers or everyday lives. The endgame is to own property and collect rent, which is the main gateway to wealth (as it is in most of Asia - just look at how the majority of Asian tycoons made their fortunes).

This causes most Singaporeans to be relatively homogeneous in the things they do and their outlook on the world. You won't find anywhere near the range of activities, passions and hobbies that Americans engage in. Everyone does the same few things, and talks about the same few topics, all of the time.

2) A dearth of dreams, imagination, and world-changing idealism. The core value of Singapore is pragmatism, and it's built into every facet of this place. The parenting, school system, government, and even national service in the military all shape citizens toward a very stable and staid pattern of thought: that things can't be changed, that responsibilities to family come first, that there's no point trying to correct the system or working to change it because the school/army/corporate/government bureaucracy is too entrenched and won't ever listen. This sense of "nothing's going to change, why bother fighting" was particularly bad in the '90s and before, and I still hear such opinions from my parents. Is it a surprise, then, that innovation wasn't too prized until recently?

It doesn't help that there didn't use to be a wide range of employment available in the earlier decades, so not many people tried to eke out careers in more unusual areas, much less start campaigns to change Singaporean society and the world. The older generation of Singaporeans would deride these endeavours as mere dreams and silly teenage notions; you'd grow out of it eventually and become a doctor or executive or whatever. Hardly anyone has made a big impact internationally - whether as an athlete, artist, scientist, or entrepreneur - which meant that there were few role models for kids to look up to. No Michael Jordans or Bill Gateses here.

3) Size. Many of Singapore's problems stem from its size. The lack of space results in runaway rents. Sky-high rents drive out less profitable business and ensure few people can experiment with new, risky concepts that don't turn a big profit. This keeps businesses more conservative and makes it hard for organic enclaves to emerge here. (You rarely see unoccupied shop space here, much less abandoned buildings where someone might throw a pop-up party or hold an exhibition.)

High rents also mean everyone lives with their parents, can't afford to buy a house till they get married, and is reluctant to rent a place. They don't have their own space to socialise, have people over, live their own lives, which makes for a pretty sober existence - literally and figuratively. (I suspect this is one reason the rate of singlehood is really high; we simply don't have enough fun with friends, and rarely meet new people.) Then the high density also leads to massive peak load on public transport, which worsen the daily experience.

The island's small size and heavy urbanisation leaves it with few natural scenic spots. You have to fly out to get anywhere scenic (this is related to point 4).

Finally, the small population isn't a very attractive target for entrepreneurs, and the lack of a shared culture with nearby countries makes it hard to penetrate those markets without moving there. It also makes it a much more comfortable bet to be a professional than an entrepreneur or artist. Having few successful entrepreneurs leads to fewer kids having big dreams.

4) Climate and geography. The heat and humidity mean that it's simply not enjoyable to hang out in the sun. You can't enjoy long walks or bicycle rides here without getting drenched in sweat. If you hang out with friends, you do it in air-conditioning, which means restaurants, bars, and shopping malls. I can't go and sit on the grass like I did in the US, much less head out of town to snowboard, walk through vineyards, or camp by a lake.

It's also a relatively flat island. An American friend's visiting mother remarked that one problem with Singapore is that it lacks a mountain, and she's right. Add to that the lack of seasons and the relatively monotonous tropical foliage, and you end up with nature that isn't all that enjoyable and barely any scenic vistas. In stark contrast are the natural and man-made sights of Japan and Taiwan, which awe Singaporeans endlessly - it's no surprise that they're probably the most popular travel destinations for us.

5) A lack of natural community and social openness. Like many dense cities, we don't have many events and local festivals that naturally bring communities together. This is in contrast to the festivals that occur in many neighbouring countries, in Europe, in Japan, and wherever old traditions have been preserved. Many Singaporeans are strangers to their neighbours, which makes for a small social circle and a closedness to making new friends outside of school.

There's no culture of talking to strangers at all, and children are actively discouraged from taking an interest in other people (being a "kaypoh" busybody). I remember this acutely from my own upbringing; you minded your own business, because you'd probably look silly if you tried to interfere in others, or even get in trouble.

A co-worker from Vietnam commented that while he makes much more money here, he finds that home offers more enjoyment and celebration of life and friendships, more things to do, and less of a focus on work and earning money. This echoes comments I've heard from foreigners from France, New York, China, and elsewhere.

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Some of these things have changed a bit, especially with the changing outlook of top politicians, the livening up of the city centre, and the loosening of old bureaucratic rules. Many more people have travelled or lived overseas, which has lead some to import foreign ideas: witness the boom in cafes, bars, campaigns and organisations started by yuppies who fell in love with an idea, a style, or a culture while they were abroad. But the historical inertia of being a pragmatic, competitive, unidealistic, and unopen culture is too much to overcome in a mere decade or two.

No magic ever happens in Singapore. Godzilla attacks Tokyo, mobsters run Hong Kong, down-and-out writers shoot to fame in New York, Hollywood stars zip around Los Angeles, tech revolutions start in Silicon Valley - but Singaporeans would scoff and laugh at a movie that set the fantastical or whimsical in Singapore. We're enraptured by the fairytale fantasies that Korean dramas spin, because we have none of that. We can't imagine anything interrupting our routine, everyday lives and stolid bureaucracy. It's like being in a small town and knowing that monsters will only ever attack New York. That's the upshot of a Singaporean upbringing.

I completely understand why people would leave for more culturally rich places. I hope to eventually spend at least half my time out of the country, probably through building a cross-national business - but for now I'm stuck here, looking for the right connections and opportunities (if you're in town and have a good idea, get in touch).

Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#56
post #5

The quick search I just made for suicide rate per capita shows the rate in Singapore is kinda average.

"The suicide rate in Singapore is rising at an unprecedented rate of 29% a year. With people between the age of 20-29, the increase is a horrifying 80%." The author said that it is rising rapidly, not that it is currently high.

yeah, whenever I see a stat like 'such-and-such has risen by x%!' and it does not give the absolute figures, I always assume the author is trying to exaggerate and mislead (not that I'm saying this one is).

Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#57
post #8
post #3

TL;DR: the country is all right, just didn't like it that much

1st world problems. Singapore is too easy to live in.

Reading between the lines it seems he had a hard time finding friends. Singaporeans don't drink as excessively as Americans, so if your only "fun" outlet is alcohol you're gonna have a tough time.

Re: Why I’ll Never Return to Singapore

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it incredibly stupid. Never return to Singapore because every day students declare pride in their country ? Great. Better not spend any time in the US, UK, Australia or countless other countries. Or do people think kids are just born with an understanding of the flag, anthem etc. And citizens are forced to spend time in the military. Okay that is a bit much but hardly unprecedented. And personally I find the…

Exactly what are you thinking of when you refer to "the military propaganda in the US"? I've never had the impression that the military was held in particularly high regard; serving in the military is the sort of thing you might be ashamed to admit that your children do. Or look at how college students object to even allowing recruiters onto the campus. Obviously, attitudes differ place-to-place. But I found your phr…

Perhaps it's harder to see looking from the inside, but most other cultures are MUCH less Military obsessed than the US just about any way you measure it...
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