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Ninja Sphere: Next Generation Control of Your Environment

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Re: Ninja Sphere: Next Generation Control of Your Environment

#31

Post by rsync »

Amadou wrote: post #4

I don't see mention either way of subscription/cloud requirements. If it isn't fully self-contained, then the risks out-weigh the benefits. Edit: Drilling down to the ninja blocks pages I see mention of a "ninja cloud account" as being required to install drivers. That sort of unnecessary external dependency is a deal-breaker for me, essentially negating the entire value proposition of open-source. http://ninjablocks…

Agreed. I was, for instance, very excited about the new nest smart-smoke-alarms and just stopped reading and went away when I saw the first mention of my "nest cloud account" or "nest login" or whatever it was...

Thank god Sonos came out back in 2005 (or so) and was built without all of this nonsense - no doubt if it was released today there would be a mySonos web login account cloud identity blah blah blah...

Re: Ninja Sphere: Next Generation Control of Your Environment

#32

Post by nitrogen »

Amadou wrote: post #4

I don't see mention either way of subscription/cloud requirements. If it isn't fully self-contained, then the risks out-weigh the benefits. Edit: Drilling down to the ninja blocks pages I see mention of a "ninja cloud account" as being required to install drivers. That sort of unnecessary external dependency is a deal-breaker for me, essentially negating the entire value proposition of open-source. http://ninjablocks…

Mandatory cloud connectivity is detrimental to the usability and security of an automation system. I, for one, will never add non-optional cloud features to my own automation products.

Some day I want to see more systems with a decentralized architecture, where cloud servers, if used at all, only help facilitate a secure VPN connection between the user's device (e.g. a phone) and the user's home network.

Re: Ninja Sphere: Next Generation Control of Your Environment

#33

Post by nitrogen »

Amadou wrote: post #24
malandrew wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Why not open-source the other software parts under some fairly protective license like AGPL for the server and Artistic License v2 for the client interface to the AGPL-ed server. These licenses adequately protect you from a commercial entity coming and stealing the mass market business opportunity or the community, while still making it possible to support individual hackers like Amadou that can contribute a…

I don't wish to give the impression that hacking on the hardware is my goal. I could, but I'd rather not. The reason external dependencies are a problem for me is that they take away my ability to control my system. If I have to hack together something to use it without the servers, then that's a marginal improvement over having to reverse engineer the protocol on the wire, but it's still really customer unfriendly.…

It would be like buying a car that has to check in with [ed: GM] every time I want to start the engine.

Isn't that called OnStar?

Re: Ninja Sphere: Next Generation Control of Your Environment

#34

Post by nitrogen »

Ninja Sphere looks very cool, particularly the RF-based location. Everyone who's ever lost their remote control wants a way to find it, or just do away with it entirely. It seems this could do both. The future of home automation is in ambient intelligence; things behaving correctly without user intervention.

[Obligatory self-promotion:] If you're planning on upgrading to the XboxOne, have an old Kinect lying around from your 360, and want to get a small part of the way right now to where these guys will get you in June, please check out the link to my startup in my HN profile.

Re: Ninja Sphere: Next Generation Control of Your Environment

#35

Post by jamesaguilar »

Amadou wrote: post #4

I don't see mention either way of subscription/cloud requirements. If it isn't fully self-contained, then the risks out-weigh the benefits. Edit: Drilling down to the ninja blocks pages I see mention of a "ninja cloud account" as being required to install drivers. That sort of unnecessary external dependency is a deal-breaker for me, essentially negating the entire value proposition of open-source. http://ninjablocks…

Risk of what?

Re: Ninja Sphere: Next Generation Control of Your Environment

#36

Post by groby_b »

malandrew wrote: post #25
thatguydan wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dan from Ninja here. That's what happens when you try and explain something geeky to a broad audience... but for the techies... It's a powerful (same chip as beaglebone black) ARM computer with WiFi, BLE and ZigBee radios. Runs ubuntu. Everything open source. Almost all Node.JS. It uses open source drivers to connect to devices and learns how they operate, building a model. If something is out of place, it notifies y…

You actually did a pretty good job with the copy right below the video, "Next generation control of your [home or office] with accurate in-home location data and a gesture control interface.". You should have focused on what it can do now and the vision of what it could become and then spent the second half on the open source aspects of it. You could have also added a steady cam scene following someone around their h…

Yay, home automation in prolog. Answers each and every request with "No.". Can't wait ;)

Re: Ninja Sphere: Next Generation Control of Your Environment

#37

Post by smelliot »

Amadou wrote: post #4

I don't see mention either way of subscription/cloud requirements. If it isn't fully self-contained, then the risks out-weigh the benefits. Edit: Drilling down to the ninja blocks pages I see mention of a "ninja cloud account" as being required to install drivers. That sort of unnecessary external dependency is a deal-breaker for me, essentially negating the entire value proposition of open-source. http://ninjablocks…

You can also just SSH in and 'git pull' a driver if you prefer =)

Re: Ninja Sphere: Next Generation Control of Your Environment

#38

Post by thatguydan »

nitrogen wrote: post #32
Amadou wrote: post #4

I don't see mention either way of subscription/cloud requirements. If it isn't fully self-contained, then the risks out-weigh the benefits. Edit: Drilling down to the ninja blocks pages I see mention of a "ninja cloud account" as being required to install drivers. That sort of unnecessary external dependency is a deal-breaker for me, essentially negating the entire value proposition of open-source. http://ninjablocks…

Mandatory cloud connectivity is detrimental to the usability and security of an automation system. I, for one, will never add non-optional cloud features to my own automation products. Some day I want to see more systems with a decentralized architecture, where cloud servers, if used at all, only help facilitate a secure VPN connection between the user's device (e.g. a phone) and the user's home network.

The code on the device will be open source. If you wrote something that made it easier to use when the internet was down (or you weren't connected at all) and sent a pull-request you'd have a good shot of it being accepted. When the backend is released as O/S too there will no doubt be some effort towards getting it running on the device itself.

Re: Ninja Sphere: Next Generation Control of Your Environment

#39

Post by babby »

voltagex_ wrote: post #12
thatguydan wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dan from Ninja here. That's what happens when you try and explain something geeky to a broad audience... but for the techies... It's a powerful (same chip as beaglebone black) ARM computer with WiFi, BLE and ZigBee radios. Runs ubuntu. Everything open source. Almost all Node.JS. It uses open source drivers to connect to devices and learns how they operate, building a model. If something is out of place, it notifies y…

Can I run it without it having a connection to your servers?

This is pretty much the only important question

Re: Ninja Sphere: Next Generation Control of Your Environment

#40

Post by amirmc »

nitrogen wrote: post #32
Amadou wrote: post #4

I don't see mention either way of subscription/cloud requirements. If it isn't fully self-contained, then the risks out-weigh the benefits. Edit: Drilling down to the ninja blocks pages I see mention of a "ninja cloud account" as being required to install drivers. That sort of unnecessary external dependency is a deal-breaker for me, essentially negating the entire value proposition of open-source. http://ninjablocks…

Mandatory cloud connectivity is detrimental to the usability and security of an automation system. I, for one, will never add non-optional cloud features to my own automation products. Some day I want to see more systems with a decentralized architecture, where cloud servers, if used at all, only help facilitate a secure VPN connection between the user's device (e.g. a phone) and the user's home network.

I'm working with others on a FOSS toolstack that makes it easier to build decentralised systems. Take a look and let me know what you think. http://nymote.org/
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