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Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

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Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#161
post #103

Here's a question to which most people experience revulsion, but must be thought of and answered honestly: Why not give everyone the same bonus based on company performance? Make it collective good. You'll probably think of reasons, like "good people should be rewarded," or "people who do things wrong need to have consequences," but you must realize the alternative is this vile demotivational anti-pattern with even w…

>Why not give everyone the same bonus based on company performance? Make it collective good. Because like all collective goods you suffer from the tragedy of the commons. If you work for a large company your individual contribution is so small it has a negligible effect on your bonus. Unless you're interested in moving up the management ladder the smart thing to do is just work hard enough to avoid getting fired. Of…

If you make the same as someone that leaves at 5pm sharp, you don't have to like it. If monetary compensation is your motivation for staying later, you're likely making the wrong choice. Bonuses in those instances do set the wrong tone, though. I would consider getting the same as a non-performer just expected salary increases but its still a kick in the nuts either way.

Your last line is crucial and one my experience can echo. If you strip away incentives, ones that attracted people to your place to begin with, you can expect turnover. You might as well be walking then to the door. You can fool new hires to a degree until they hear that there were performance bonuses at one point and then the same resentment starts to grow inside them too. You're only real recourse is to have every one of the "old guard" leave so you can continue your downward spiral into cheapness.

Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#162
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more about producing a quality culture in order to produce a quality product. You can still recognize people for performance, but not by an unverifiable and arbitrary rating scale. You can still promote people, but do it in the open by agreed upon skills, merits, and experience. Your goal shouldn't be to demotivate people by negating all forms of reward, but to motivate them by rewarding in the clear based on ag…

I agree with you, but I think one thing is worth mentioning: You can still get rid of bad players. The "bad player" problem is a real one. I'm not talking about people who underperform compared to others, but to those who disrupt the work environment by various means. People like that are poison to a productive working environment, and there is nothing in anything that has been said which means you shouldn't get rid…

Oh absolutely. It's part of cultivating the culture. Personally I like the book "The No Asshole Rule."

Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the following anecdote may illustrate the silliness of the ranking systems: My wife works in a big manufacturing company (which is just slightly related to IT). She started to work in a just-opened position for some department. As the position is new, they are not sure about her obligations. After one year, she had a end-of-year review, where her immediate boss rates her performance. Because she completed eve…

When I bought a car recently, the sales person said the company would send me a survey about his service. On a scale of 1 to 10, he claimed (and I did believe him) that the company treats a 10 as a 10 and a 1-9 as a 0 when determining employee bonuses.

I read the same assertion in a couple car buying guides. It was given as advice going into negotiation: let the salesman and his(her) manager know that you know how the rating system works and you're happy to give perfect scores for a good buying experience.

Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#164

Why do these companies have Microsoft-style stack-ranking systems? Because many engineers are pussies who don't fight for themselves. Imagine if that stack-ranking nonsense were done to a law firm. (Law firms have a very civilized way of managing people out into external promotions if they, after ~6 years, obviously aren't going to make partner. Google "Cravath model".) There'd be lawsuits galore. Attorneys would sta…

A lot is self-imposed: engineers tend to believe in the idea of a meritocracy and the 20% overachievers. It's the lone hacker ethic. The downside is that if you stick to that, 80% of us get the shaft.

Lots of comparisons to attorneys, on significant difference is that attorneys have a way to advance their career while remaining an attorney. I've got nearly 20 years in this biz and constantly get told that if I want to increase my salary, I need to move into management. I notice a lot of the discussion is around how to get "promoted". Attorneys get promoted to partner, at which point they have equity in the company, and that's not "here's some stock options", you actually have your cash invested in the partnership.

Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#165
post #78

Eh. I'm in Facebook bootcamp now. Between this article about the ranking system, a truly uninspiring (to me --- YMMV) choice of teams to work on, and the press Facebook has been getting lately, I'm seriously considering parting ways and going somewhere else. Nobody can beat Facebook's pay or food, but what good is it if I feel like I lack direction and purpose? How much would it damage my career to say I tried FB boo…

Why would you say you quit right off the bat? So you can brag about being accepted but not staying? I don't really understand

Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the basic cooperation vs. competition problem. If you have competition then people spend a lot of resources fighting because what matters most is being faster than your friends, even if that means working to slow them down. Whereas if you have cooperation then you get complacency because then nobody has to be faster than anybody, so everybody can sit on their duff. It seems to me the solution is to rate peopl…

> "The article seems to think this doesn't work because you can't give a large bonus to everyone" Indeed. Why can't you simply measure people against a consistent, externally-defined bar, and reward them based on their share of their performance group? e.g., Employees who hit the bar are in group C, employees who exceed it are in group B, employees who are extraordinary are in group A. Each group has a portion of the…

It's always fascinating the gymnastics people engage in to deny the existence of turnover costs

Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Works for John Lewis in the UK

To expand on this: John Lewis is a chain of department stores and supermarkets (Waitrose), which is owned by its employees. Each year, a sizable fraction of its profits go to a bonus distributed in proportion to salary (17% on top of each salary last year, according to Wikipedia).

Sorry I was being a bit UK centric there John Lewis is a effectively a worker coop - even though they dont use the term and there are a few issues with how the internal democracy works.

Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minor point... I'd say Christianity goes along with the original poster's idea of everyone getting the same reward - ie grace - nothing you do can merit it - it's a gift. The parable of the vineyard workers explains it - it doesn't matter how late in the day the workers start working - they all get the same reward.

Also, if Jesus was interested in "roasting" people, he wouldn't have bothered coming here.

And if His old man weren't interested in roasting people, He'd have used industry-wide best practices such as two-factor authentication and salted password hashes on the root server, to keep Satan from hacking into the source repository.
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