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Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

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Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#101
post #21
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think michaelochurch advocated open allocation.

How does open allocation address performance evaluation/compensation? Doesn't Valve have both open allocation and stack ranking?

Review (and compensate based on) impact rather than "performance", the latter carrying connotations of personal assessment rather than objective contribution.

Low impact doesn't mean you're a "low performer" or bad person, just that you didn't have any major successes that year. You'd fire over low impact if someone clearly didn't care, but not if they were just unlucky/ill-mentored/mistaken in choosing what efforts to focus on.

The problem with stack-ranking is that it lets people get "killed by the dice", to use an RPG metaphor.

Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#102

Here's a question to which most people experience revulsion, but must be thought of and answered honestly: Why not give everyone the same bonus based on company performance? Make it collective good. You'll probably think of reasons, like "good people should be rewarded," or "people who do things wrong need to have consequences," but you must realize the alternative is this vile demotivational anti-pattern with even w…

Works for John Lewis in the UK

Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#103

Here's a question to which most people experience revulsion, but must be thought of and answered honestly: Why not give everyone the same bonus based on company performance? Make it collective good. You'll probably think of reasons, like "good people should be rewarded," or "people who do things wrong need to have consequences," but you must realize the alternative is this vile demotivational anti-pattern with even w…

>Why not give everyone the same bonus based on company performance? Make it collective good.

Because like all collective goods you suffer from the tragedy of the commons. If you work for a large company your individual contribution is so small it has a negligible effect on your bonus. Unless you're interested in moving up the management ladder the smart thing to do is just work hard enough to avoid getting fired. Of course not everyone will adopt this attitude, but enough will to affect the overall performance of the company.

Also your top performers will leave. People who are passionate about their jobs and put in long hours expect to be rewarded for their efforts. If you give them the same bonus as the guy in the next cubicle who's out the door at 5:00 PM sharp they're not going to like it very much.

My company used to have two bonuses - one based on individual performance and one based on company performance. A few years back the individual performance bonus went away and the results have been disastrous. Once you get a significant percentage of people slacking off the entire character of the office changes.

Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#104

I'm more interested in why employees don't band together to game the system and ensure a given outcome, then split the winnings. Like a sort of a pyramid scheme - you and a buddy agree that this quarter it will be you who gets promoted and split the bonus/raise with your buddy. Then you get a third buddy and get him in on it if he agrees to let the second buddy be promoted this quarter. Now you're splitting 3 raises…

It has worked that way at one company I worked at some mangers gave people a good evaluation one year and slightly under next year.

Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#105
post #6

The evil, destructive, part of stack ranking is when you need to apply the 20%/70%/10% breakdowns to all teams equally, meaning that even a team of 5 people needs to have one and only one "exceeds expectation" person and one person who "needs improvement", regardless of overall team level. It's not clear from this writeup that Amazon and Facebook are applying curves at such a micro level.

The even more evil part is where the stack ranking figures are adjusted to suit hr's desired outcome with no direct link between an individuals performance and your final score.

Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've just described not one, but two bad managers. Steve's manager, who doesn't have what it takes to make the hard decisions and is to lazy to do job interviews, and the manager of Steve's manager, who won't let him get a replacement if he fires Steve, but is perfectly willing to keep paying for Steve. Now you can defend Steve's manager because he's nice to Steve, but if I had a dime for every employee who's pisse…

You call someone a bad manager because they are friends with their subordinates? So you'd only hire psychopaths? That seems fraught with peril. To be more explicit: calling a human a bad manager for liking people is like calling a tree a bad tree for growing toward the sun. Humans are designed by evolution to like each other. The only humans that don't have this bias are broken ones. So I refuse to consider someone a…

>You call someone a bad manager because they are friends with their subordinates?

Part of being a manager is separating your personal feelings from your professional obligations. You may think the world of Steve as a person, and you may not want to fire him, but if he can't do his job as a manager you need to let him go. And if you can't do that you shouldn't be in management.

Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#107
post #20
post #2

So what's a better way to do it? You need a documented system. If you don't have a documented system then there will be an undocumented system which is the same problem with less documentation.

Each employee receives a single unit of value. Let's call it a 'credit.' Each employee then has to distribute all of his 'credit' to other employees. Each employee then gives away any credit received according to the same original distribution. Each employee continues doing so until the credit received and distributed reaches an equilibrium. Each employee is then ranked by the total amount of 'credit' they've accumul…

That's equivalent to socialism. :) If the compensation received is proportional to the credits, then there is just one optimal strategy for distributing the credits.

Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#108

Here's a question to which most people experience revulsion, but must be thought of and answered honestly: Why not give everyone the same bonus based on company performance? Make it collective good. You'll probably think of reasons, like "good people should be rewarded," or "people who do things wrong need to have consequences," but you must realize the alternative is this vile demotivational anti-pattern with even w…

> Why not give everyone the same bonus based on company performance? Make it collective good.

I don't know whether this is common in other industries, but at top American law firms, salary raises and bonuses are lockstep. That means everyone gets paid based strictly on seniority. At many firms, this even carries through the partnership ranks.

There are benefits and disadvantages to such a system. The benefit is that it reduces competition between workers, and reduces unproductive credit-seeking. When you rank people against each other, the focus ultimately shifts to optimizing to the ranking metric, which is inevitably different than actually optimizing job performance. Such systems favor people who are good at taking credit, not people who get the best results. Lockstep systems also increase cooperation: nobody avoids helping someone else or avoids working on a stronger team for fear of the zero-sum nature of rankings.

The downside is that strict lockstep systems keep you from giving superstars extra compensation. This can be a liability if you don't have a uniformly high quality of employee, because superstars will leave for companies that offer individualized compensation. That being said, the advantages of individualized compensation decrease as it becomes more difficult to achieve true measures of individual performance. Nobody complains about individualized performance ratings on Wall Street, because it's easy to compute how much money a trader made for the firm or the value of the deals an investment banker worked on. The relevant metrics are objective and hard to game. It's much more difficult to evaluate a programmer's contribution to a development team.

The most troubling thing to me about stack ranking is not ranking per se, but the fact that stack ranking is applied by HR departments. This issue has come up before in the context of hiring, and what I said then is the same thing I'll say here: HR should not be involved in hiring, or firing! It's perfectly okay to identify weak performers and fire them, but it should be an organic process that happens based on the decisions of technical leadership. HR folks are administrative people. They're there to fill out W-2 forms and keep you from getting sued by disgruntled employees. They do not have domain expertise and do not know what makes for an effective technical employee.

This is an area where tech companies need to take a page from Wall Street rather than traditional Big Corps. At an investment bank, a banker decides who to hire and who to fire, not some HR person who has no understanding of banking. To make this system tractable, firing decisions are made at a low level, early and often. That prevents getting into a situation where the organization builds up a glut of weak performers that need to be fired in some comprehensive and systematic culling.

Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#109
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve does stack ranking == compensation and they very much have a hirachy, it's just not documented. It's called the Tyranny of Structurelessness: http://beautifultrouble.org/principle/beware-the-tyranny-of-...

Valve "stack ranking" is for bonuses only. In other words, an error that puts you toward the bottom of the stack reduces your payout from a pool of money you were never promised and to which you are not entitled. You get another chance next year to excel and come out on top. Over time, the errors should smooth out. Microsoft-style stack ranking, on the other hand, completely fucks up your career in the company, even…

You get another chance next year to excel and come out on top.

A year is a long time to be passed by for additional compensation. Our technostartup environment makes a year feel even longer since the rate of change and adoption of new products is accelerating.

How do companies justify holding paltry bonus parties when teenagers are selling companies for $30 million or raising valuations at $4 billion for things that didn't exist 12 to 24 months ago?

Yearly bonuses feel like an entire lifetime passes between them. Sure, great, here's your bonus amount, but out in the real world there are still people going from zero-to-millions in the same timeframe.

Does this just go back to people are weak/scared/risk-averse and companies can exploit that sociopathically by paying someone $X while their work generates 10$X to 100$X value to the company?

Re: Why are Amazon, Facebook and Yahoo copying Microsoft's stack ranking system?

#110
post #6

The evil, destructive, part of stack ranking is when you need to apply the 20%/70%/10% breakdowns to all teams equally, meaning that even a team of 5 people needs to have one and only one "exceeds expectation" person and one person who "needs improvement", regardless of overall team level. It's not clear from this writeup that Amazon and Facebook are applying curves at such a micro level.

I think the following anecdote may illustrate the silliness of the ranking systems:

My wife works in a big manufacturing company (which is just slightly related to IT). She started to work in a just-opened position for some department. As the position is new, they are not sure about her obligations.

After one year, she had a end-of-year review, where her immediate boss rates her performance. Because she completed everything she was asked to (which was not a lot... given that they still are defining the role), her boss gave mainly 9s or 10s (out of 10) for her rating.

Well... apparently, nobody in that company is supposed to get 9s or 10s, as that would mean that their work is perfect, and their motto is that everyone can improve. So my wife's boss was scolded by her boss, and had to decrease my wife's ratings.

The worst thing is that my wife is the only person in her actual position, so she is not competing against anyone.

...

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