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It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

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Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#131

Post by jonknee »

ars wrote: post #75
jonknee wrote: post #45

I use MSG in cooking and it's a great way to lower salt while dramatically increasing flavor. It doesn't make bad food magically good, but it makes good food great. Especially good in soups and stews. I bought a bulk container in the ethnic food aisle of a grocery and it has lasted a couple of years and is now just about gone. It's amazing how much a little pinch goes. Amazon has a 1LB bag available for $6.50 and is…

> I use MSG in cooking and it's a great way to lower salt It might lower salt a bit, but it's hardly a great way, the S stands for sodium, which is exactly what you want to avoid. Perhaps the trade off is worth it if you can use less, but you need to calculate it carefully.

I beg to differ. You use less MSG than NaCL and MSG contains 1/3 the sodium of NaCL.

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#132

Post by pessimizer »

brianleb wrote: post #98
ecopoesis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link between sodium and high blood pressure is not conclusive: http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/02/why-does-sal...

In short: your blood is mostly water. Your blood is surrounded by a selectively permeable membrane (your vascular tissue). Solutes increase osmotic pressure (see: biology 101). Sodium chloride (table salt) is highly soluble in water (see: chemistry). Therefore, sodium and chloride increase the osmolarity of your blood. Water passes through the semi-permeable membrane back into your blood to decrease osmotic pressure…

>Blog posts are not a substitute for an education in biology, medicine, and science.

Turns out that an education in biology, medicine and science in no substitute for actually doing research. Your explanation for why salt raises blood pressure and increases mortality was considered so obvious that it wasn't worth studying. When it was studied, it turned out not to be in any way true. (see: reality).

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#133

Post by pessimizer »

sjwright wrote: post #78
bookface wrote: post #3

Sorry if I'm being insensitive, but how is Chinese Restaurant Syndrome "absurdly racist"? If people were having health problems as a consequence of eating corned beef, I would, as a Jew, have no problem with that condition being called "Jewish Deli Syndrome".

I completely agree with the OP; there's no reason to suggest there is anything racist about the label Chinese Restaurant Syndrome. It appears a few people have been hyper-sensitized to a bad definition of racism.

You mean other than the implication that it is exclusive to restaurants owned by the Chinese?

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#134

Post by michh »

bookface wrote: post #3

Sorry if I'm being insensitive, but how is Chinese Restaurant Syndrome "absurdly racist"? If people were having health problems as a consequence of eating corned beef, I would, as a Jew, have no problem with that condition being called "Jewish Deli Syndrome".

A better analogy would be to say losing all your money due to corrupt and greedy bankers is "Jewish Banker Syndrome". Still not offensive?

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#135

Post by andybak »

michh wrote: post #134
bookface wrote: post #3

Sorry if I'm being insensitive, but how is Chinese Restaurant Syndrome "absurdly racist"? If people were having health problems as a consequence of eating corned beef, I would, as a Jew, have no problem with that condition being called "Jewish Deli Syndrome".

A better analogy would be to say losing all your money due to corrupt and greedy bankers is "Jewish Banker Syndrome". Still not offensive?

A marvellous false analogy.

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#136

Post by andybak »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #66
gwern wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've heard that the sickness associated with MSG is more likely due to ingesting old rice. Yes, I remember there being a British, I think, study in 2011 or 2012 that bought samples of cooked rice from various oriental food sellers and found that some were contaminated (moist warm food left out for hours); the reasoning is that when people report sickness or allergy to the MSG that oriental food in the West is notor…

Off-topic, but in case you're not using British English, please be aware that "oriental" is largely considered pejorative and offensive.

I wonder if that's a piece of US-hypersensitivity? I'm British and it sounds a little old-fashioned but nothing close to 'offensive'. I even checked with a friend who works in an advice center and needs to be extremely aware of such issues and he didn't think it was problematic.

Anyone else in the UK agree or disagree?

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#137

Post by tptacek »

ars wrote: post #119
brianleb wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Please observe the differences between https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:L-Glutamate_Structural_Fo... and https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Glutamin... . The only difference is the relocation of hydrogen ions, which is a normal and expected occurrence of all molecules in the presence of other molecules. The equilibrium of these different forms of the same molecule is mediated by pH, among o…

You understood me in reverse. In the body the glutamate (acid or not) is bound up with other things, i.e. not free. I said acid because my understanding was the MSG disassociates from the sodium once ingested.

I read some glutamate metabolism papers last night and I don't think this is likely to be true at all. I think it's a manifestation of the naturalist fallacy: you believe the "free glutamic acid" released by the dissolution of MSG to be artificial and are trying to rationalize a distinction for the glutamates that the body produces that doesn't exist.

In reality, glutamic acid isn't simply an amino acid that happens to be present in the human body. It is fundamental to the way our bodies work; it's required for nitrogen metabolism! Glutamate toxicity seems very unlikely.

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#138

Post by tptacek »

Pitarou wrote: post #125
mahranch wrote: post #8

The MSG allergy is a myth, plain and simple. There have been plenty of scientific research studies done on the substance, and they found absolutely nothing. I don't know why this myth has persisted so long in popular culture. I compare it to people who rave about homeopathy. Any (perceived) effect is either anecdotal or placebo in nature. What most people don't know, is that MSG occurs naturally in many foods. Beef,…

Here's what I know: 1. I occasionally get symptoms often associated with MSG. Terrible headache, confusion, nasal drip, nausea, and so on. It can put me out of action for about 12 hours. 2. I invariably get these symptoms about 24 hours after I've eaten processed foods with an unusually rich flavour and which have, somewhere in their ingredients, either MSG or something that might conceal MSG (e.g. "flavourings"). I…

The "synthetic" MSG you're referring to isn't synthesized, it's cultured by bacteria in sugar. There is a chemical process to create MSG, but it is significantly more expensive; the shift to fermentation happened in the '70s, so you may never have had chemically synthesized MSG.

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#139

Post by tptacek »

Figs wrote: post #40
dsrguru wrote: post #7

This article is both accurate and highly misleading. The author is correct that there is very little reliable evidence that links glutamic acid and/or glutamate to health problems. The backlash against MSG as a result of the "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome" craze, was not rooted in scientific inquiry. However, MSG is not just a source for glutamate like seaweed and tomatoes are. MSG is the sodium salt of glutamic acid a…

Has anyone conducted a study to test if the headaches are actually just dehydration?

Yes, but the result was "we couldn't induce headaches at all, except in subjects who had in fact consumed a placebo". Studies have decisively refuted a link between MSG and CRS.

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#140

Post by tptacek »

wismer wrote: post #67
espeed wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the sodium, it's the glutamate (the "G" in MSG). Glutamate is an excitotoxin, and it's an additive in almost all processed foods, in various forms with many different names ( http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html ). Excitotoxicity is the "pathological process by which nerve cells are damaged and killed by excessive stimulation by neurotransmitters such as glutamate and similar substances" ( https…

I'm highly skeptical of Truthinlabeling.org. The person/group behind it seem to highlight a kindle book alleging a link between Alzheimer's and MSG? The information is also rather muddled and unclear. I would not consider this to be a reliable source. I'd also encourage anyone reading the above links to take a peek at this: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Excitotoxicity There are some notable discrepancies with t…

It's not complicated. It's been studied directly. It is an easy study to conduct. Give people MSG. Do they become symptomatic? The answer is no. This is the result you would expect, given the simple molecular structure of MSG and the fundamental role glutamic acid plays in the human body.

If we had learned about table salt in the 1910s and knew it primarily by its formula name NaCl, people would believe all manner of weird things about salt, too. In fact, people do believe weird things about salt; there is a widespread and unsupported belief that moderation of sodium intake is a key public health concern, which it is not.

It's the same with MSG. Dissolve MSG and you get sodium and an amino acid that is so important to our bodies that we produce it ourselves, without sourcing it from our food or the environment; an amino acid that is thus, unsurprisingly, hugely prevalent in foods we "naturally" eat.

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