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Typhoon Haiyan kills 10,000 in Philippines

theguardian.com

31–40 of 153 posts

Re: Typhoon Haiyan kills 10,000 in Philippines

#31

Right now the important things needed are hospital ships, helicopters, medical supplies, drinking water, food and shelters... I feel so helpless donating just cash, so many lives need to be helped.

I hire some people in the Philippines via oDesk. They are friendly, honest, hard working, trustworthy (I bought them a laptop and Kindle), speak English pretty well, and cost less than people in the US who do similar jobs, even if I believe I am paying them pretty well by local standards.

Luckily for them, they are far away from where the typhoon hit, but in terms of moving some money there, providing some work for people has funneled several orders of magnitude more cash into the country than what I could provide as charity.

Re: Typhoon Haiyan kills 10,000 in Philippines

#32
post #29
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do not freaking donate to the Red Cross. Find a local charity. The Red Cross is HORRIBLY inefficient and wasteful. Your money is buying them furniture.

Firstly you can't throw claims like that around without a source, secondly I don't think now is the time to make FUD about which charity to donate to, thirdly that's tangential to what I was quoting (that cash is better than goods), and fourthly http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/10/typhoon-haiyan-... edit: fifthly: http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary...

Maybe they behave better in other parts of the world, but the Red Cross in the USA is everyone's knee-jerk reaction to throw money at, and they have many many issues:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Red_Cross#Controversie...

http://articles.latimes.com/2006/feb/04/local/me-redcross4

https://www.google.com/search?q=Red+Cross+resigns

(note all the resignations are different people!)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/18/red-cro...

http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/11/12/the-problem...

and there was a huge scandal where they used emergency fund donations to buy furniture for their offices - having trouble finding it right now

Re: Typhoon Haiyan kills 10,000 in Philippines

#33
post #3

US "news" is finally starting to cover this. I mean 10K, that is just beyond devastating, it should be front page news for months. We lost 1800 with Katrina.

I had a friend working in a news agency once. So I ask him for details about some nasty events in Africa - and why it is not news here (I had macabre fascination at the time with how bad stuff can get in Zimbabwe so I was interested in Africa above average. It managed to get even worse than I feared). His answer was devastating - "Oh it is Africa? My editor has forbidden me from publishing news about it if the body count is lower than 50000" ...

Re: Typhoon Haiyan kills 10,000 in Philippines

#34
post #28
post #5

Wow, that's an insane death toll. To put this in perspective, last year, another super typhoon, Pablo, killed close to 2000 I believe. The year before that another devastating typhoon, Sendong, killed something like 1200. The Philippines regularly gets hit with 20 typhoons each year and the typhoon season isn't over. Each of the above mentioned typhoons hit in December. This has to be among the deadliest in Philippin…

It seems like there are two separate things needed -- overall increase in wealth creation, and better survivability of structures (or at least shelters) at the current price points (or maybe in the price points somewhat above the current point.) (I was looking at being in Cebu or Leyte for diving last week, but my ear was slightly sore so I went to Bangkok first instead. Pretty happy about that.)

Off topic but apparently your site's cert has expired: https://www.cryptoseal.com/

Re: Typhoon Haiyan kills 10,000 in Philippines

#35

This could have clearly been avoided. See what India did with Phalin, with an early warning system and planned evacuation: http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/10/13/india-cyclone-phail... Less than 20 people died.

Typhoon Haiyan is much bigger and much stronger. The wind was reported at 195 mph with 235 mph gusts. This kind of wind destroys everything on its way, peels asphalt off the roads, removes soil, etc.

Phailin maxed out at 160 mph.

That's quite a lot of difference.

Re: Typhoon Haiyan kills 10,000 in Philippines

#36

This could have clearly been avoided. See what India did with Phalin, with an early warning system and planned evacuation: http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/10/13/india-cyclone-phail... Less than 20 people died.

I don't know, there are a lot of variables. As someone else mentioned, not only was this storm stronger, but it was at the theoretical maximum strength that a storm could be. So, it's possibly among the strongest ever to hit land.

You can't get good info from the news and of course any government will has its own agenda to look good. Getting good data from 3rd world countries is also hard.

We took a direct hit (eye passed over the city) from what was at one time the equivalent of a cat 5 hurricane (Pablo) in the southern part of Negros Oriental in the Philippines last year. I don't know what strength it was by the time it got to us, but the winds were pretty damn scary. Fortunately, this typhoon was mostly wind and not much rain. The typhoon created a mess, but we were largely back to normal in one day.

The year previous to Pablo, we got hit by Sendong which seemed like the opposite of Pablo. There wasn't much wind, but the rain was heavy and steady for something like 10 hours. That rain created much more destruction and lost lives than the winds from Pablo.

So, each typhoon has its own personality. You can't do an apples to apples comparison from one storm to another. It's typical of media to make such a comparison.

The Philippines also has some logistical difficulties that India may not have. It's an archipelago of over 7,000 islands and a very poor country. India has its poor areas also, but the nation as a whole has far more resources.

The Philippines did make an effort to evacuate people and clearly the nation could have better prepared. There is always more that you can do. I don't know how this area in India compares to the Philippines, but we get hit with an average of something like 20 typhoons every year. The Philippines is among the most dangerous places on the planet for natural disasters.

Shelters a great for saving lives, and that's the most important, but it also sucks to lose your house and all your belongings. If someone is looking for a world changing innovation, then figuring out a way to make a cheap structure which could withstand the sorts of natural disasters that the Philippines gets hit with regularly would be huge.

ETA:

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/10/21389125-typho...

> Most of the deaths appear to have been caused by surging seas that resembled a tsunami, flattening buildings and drowning hundreds, according to Reuters.

This supports what I mentioned earlier. The wind is bad, but in a typhoon, it's water which really ratchets up the number of casualties. Comparing winds speeds of two different typhoons isn't necessarily comparing the most destructive components.

Re: Typhoon Haiyan kills 10,000 in Philippines

#37
can someone who is better informed than me compare the typhoon a few weeks back in orissa, India with 12 casualties and this one.

note - this isn't a rhetoric. I genuinely want to understand what is the reason for such a massive difference. I have financial interests in that exact part of India and actually have been thinking that the govt is pretty well prepared (given, well that it is India).

Re: Typhoon Haiyan kills 10,000 in Philippines

#38
post #11

U.S. military will support typhoon recovery efforts in various ways. The U.S. military announced that Secretary Chuck Hagel has directed troops to support these humanitarian missions. That includes deploying aircraft for search-and-rescue missions, bringing in aid and providing logistical support. The U.S. force will be led by Marines out of Okinawa, Japan, according to two U.S. military officials. Other military ser…

It was clear days before landfall that this was a huge storm; the ships should have already been enroute, and other supplies staged in Guam and Okinawa.

Wouldn't travelling from Okinawa to Philippines have put those ships in the path of the storm?

Re: Typhoon Haiyan kills 10,000 in Philippines

#39
post #35

This could have clearly been avoided. See what India did with Phalin, with an early warning system and planned evacuation: http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/10/13/india-cyclone-phail... Less than 20 people died.

Typhoon Haiyan is much bigger and much stronger. The wind was reported at 195 mph with 235 mph gusts. This kind of wind destroys everything on its way, peels asphalt off the roads, removes soil, etc. Phailin maxed out at 160 mph. That's quite a lot of difference.

The wind was reported at 195 mph with 235 mph gusts

That's insane. I'm sure it would rip out most testing equipment. I've seen the damage from similar micro-bursts (nothing is left standing. And I mean nothing alive. Complete devastation. It would look like thos pictures from when the meteor hit Siberian in the early 20th century. A mess of matchsticks.

_______

edit: updated info

Haiyan attained its peak intensity with ten-minute sustained winds of 235 km/h (145 mph)

one-minute sustained winds of 315 km/h (195 mph) and gusts up to 378 km/h (235 mph)

Still a record, but the sustained winds are more in the mid 100's rather than approaching 200. Immensely strong peak gusts. 10 minutes of that at peak energy must have seemed like a lifetime. There is no natural shelter in these situations. Truly, truly dangerous.

Edit2: like here> http://forums.mammothmountain.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12869...

Re: Typhoon Haiyan kills 10,000 in Philippines

#40
"""It's worth reiterating that for all the obvious destructive power of sustained wind speeds of almost 200mph, it was the associated storm surge – the rush of water into coastal areas – which caused the worst damage in Tacloban, and most likely many of the deaths. The storm surge in Tacloban was estimated at 6m, sweeping away even concrete buildings, and bringing the sort of devastation so reminiscent of the Indian Ocean tsunami."""

The primary constraint seems to be infrastructure to evacuate and shelter people. Reliable forecast of storm surge location and magnitude would save lives by allocating those resources to the correct places. Doing this well involves improved simulation methods, but also designing observational strategies, such as where to make more accurate measurements of bathymetry (one of the leading sources of uncertainty in storm surge and tsunami prediction). Disclaimer: I work in a related field and have colleagues that develop methods for storm surge forecast.

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