Android: The Land That Python Forgot • Hacker News Board

Re: Android: The Land That Python Forgot

#41

Post by dottrap » Sun, Nov 10, 2013, 9:56 AM UTC

camus2 wrote: post #7

programminggeek wrote: post #3

You can replace Python in Ruby or Lua for the most part and also Android with iOS. Dynamic languages aren't yet a big deal and I think it's because they don't bind well or give you a significantly better developer experience than Objective-C or Java on these platforms do. RubyMotion is probably the closest I've seen to making a language like Ruby or Python a very compelling mobile developer experience while maintaini…

the irony is the use of javascript in solutions like Titanium,to code ANYTHING but the ui ( the business logic is in javacript , the ui is native ). I like the approach though, it's a better approach than phonegaps and likes. the only drawback : doesnt seem the engine they use is opensource.

In Titanium, you code both the business logic and UI in Javascript. The Javascript UI APIs Titanium provides call native APIs under the hood.

Titanium is open source; the repository can be found on GitHub.

Re: Android: The Land That Python Forgot

#42

Post by msie » Sun, Nov 10, 2013, 10:09 AM UTC

jsmeaton wrote: post #37

nawitus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I've never understood why someone would prefer a untyped language. It's just a bad developing experience, code needs more debugging, it is harder to maintain and overall productivity is lower. Untyped languages are fine only for small scripting languages.

There's a difference between typed and statically typed. Python is a strongly typed language, but it is dynamic. > bad developing experience, code needs more debugging, it is harder to maintain and overall productivity is lower All of these observations are highly subjective. > Developing experience: I much prefer developing in python than java. If IDEs factor in, there are a number available for python, none of whic…

Working in C# right now and agonizing over the class hierarchy...

Re: Android: The Land That Python Forgot

#43

Post by _pferreir_ » Sun, Nov 10, 2013, 10:24 AM UTC

nawitus wrote: post #35

eonil wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to add some more. That's correct that the type system is the crucial attribute as a platform language. But that's not the only reason. It's also for correctness, safety, productivity and manageability. That's because a platform is huge and complex monster. So all those properties are archive-able only by automated tools, and those tools need rich metadata for each word of code. Type information is crucial meta…

Exactly. I've never understood why someone would prefer a untyped language. It's just a bad developing experience, code needs more debugging, it is harder to maintain and overall productivity is lower. Untyped languages are fine only for small scripting languages.

Are we really going to discuss this again?

> code needs more debugging, it is harder to maintain and overall productivity is lower

References?

Re: Android: The Land That Python Forgot

#44

Post by merusame » Sun, Nov 10, 2013, 10:25 AM UTC

rizalp wrote: post #33

skrebbel wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think that programming languages are strictly worse or better than others on a linear scale, then there is something important you have missed.

Always use the correct tools for the Job. Pragmatism wins

thumbs up.

Re: Android: The Land That Python Forgot

#45

Post by dochtman » Sun, Nov 10, 2013, 10:27 AM UTC

I was wondering about the NDK here. How much of what the SDK provides is also provided by the NDK? Could you do UI stuff by building a Python extension around the NDK? (Probably not, since it would've been done already?)

Re: Android: The Land That Python Forgot

#46

Post by nilliams » Sun, Nov 10, 2013, 10:28 AM UTC

eonil wrote: post #25

raverbashing wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"write a Python compiler for iOS or Android to make it compelling, which means adding type checking " No PyPy is a (JIT) compiler for Python, no type checking addition needed.

the point is adding type system, not compiling it.

Python has a type system.

Re: Android: The Land That Python Forgot

#47

Post by jsmeaton » Sun, Nov 10, 2013, 10:40 AM UTC

msie wrote: post #42

jsmeaton wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between typed and statically typed. Python is a strongly typed language, but it is dynamic. > bad developing experience, code needs more debugging, it is harder to maintain and overall productivity is lower All of these observations are highly subjective. > Developing experience: I much prefer developing in python than java. If IDEs factor in, there are a number available for python, none of whic…

Working in C# right now and agonizing over the class hierarchy...

I love C#, but when moving between it and python, I find I focus too much on the types and hierarchies.

Re: Android: The Land That Python Forgot

#48

Post by chrismonsanto » Sun, Nov 10, 2013, 11:10 AM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #36

nawitus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I've never understood why someone would prefer a untyped language. It's just a bad developing experience, code needs more debugging, it is harder to maintain and overall productivity is lower. Untyped languages are fine only for small scripting languages.

I doubt you really mean untyped languages. Untyped languages includes many assembly languages, BCPL and some Forths. It does not include typical scripting languages like Perl, Ruby or Python - all of which are strongly typed.

To be pedantic, assembly languages do generally have multiple types, if by 'type' we mean 'a set of values disjoint from other sets of values'. For example, x86 has the types integer, floating point, MMX, SSE, and registers of these types cannot be confused for each other. It's just that these classifications/types aren't so useful, and we can't make our own (and perhaps all we really wanted was a distinction between integer and pointer)

Re: Android: The Land That Python Forgot

#49

Post by ygra » Sun, Nov 10, 2013, 11:17 AM UTC

tantalor wrote: post #26

What about performance? Seems one of the biggest concerns on mobile devices is to achieve high performance with low overhead. What kind of penalty comes with a separate python runtime?

Dalvik isn't very fast already; I doubt a native Python runtime is that much slower for lightweight tasks. The usual caveats apply, of course, in that you shouldn't try to do things that are ill-suited to your target platform (be it Python or Dalvik).

Re: Android: The Land That Python Forgot

#50

Post by tbarbugli » Sun, Nov 10, 2013, 11:21 AM UTC

nawitus wrote: post #35

eonil wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to add some more. That's correct that the type system is the crucial attribute as a platform language. But that's not the only reason. It's also for correctness, safety, productivity and manageability. That's because a platform is huge and complex monster. So all those properties are archive-able only by automated tools, and those tools need rich metadata for each word of code. Type information is crucial meta…

Exactly. I've never understood why someone would prefer a untyped language. It's just a bad developing experience, code needs more debugging, it is harder to maintain and overall productivity is lower. Untyped languages are fine only for small scripting languages.

Thats your opinion dude