Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 168 posts

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#91

Post by busterarm »

3825 wrote: post #50
busterarm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

scratch off point d. Helmets don't really do anything to protect you unless you practically fall off your bike standing still. I've seen brains on the street from at least two low-speed bike accidents where the cyclist was wearing a helmet. Also, it's not that all cyclists are disobeying the law. Those are just the ones you choose to see. Drivers and pedestrians alike just aren't looking. I always obey traffic laws o…

> pedestrians alike just aren't looking You mentioned you obey the law so you probably don't do this. Even if the law does not prohibit riding on the sidewalk, you should never ride on the sidewalk. Just wanted to take this time to remind everyone that bicycles do not belong on the sidewalk.

I'm not talking about riding on the sidewalk. I'm talking about pedestrians who walk out into the street (when they don't have the light) in front of a cyclist because they're only looking for cars and not bikes. I'm talking about pedestrians who walk into bike lanes without even looking at all.

I'm a cyclist and I'm constantly looking out for them and I still sometimes accidentally walk into them.

One of the biggest problems with New York's new bike lanes is that a great many pedestrians treat them as sidewalks and cops don't give them tickets for it. It totally should be a jaywalking ticket.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#92

Post by Joeboy »

FreakyT wrote: post #75
revelation wrote: post #70

It's just completely surreal driving a bicycle in car traffic. The vast majority of car drivers simply lack the moral character and should not ever be allowed to drive such dangerous machinery. Cycle paths are optional here, and I very regularly opt out of driving on them because they are in a constant state of disarray, had snow and glass shoved on them, are too close to parking cars or end abruptly, forcing me to m…

You've answered your own question. Why would people be upset when you've ignored the lane provided for you and instead decided to slow traffic to a grinding halt by taking up an entire lane? Certainly, it's unfortunate that the bike lane is poorly maintained, but to wholly place the blame on the drivers strikes me as questionable.

> Why would people be upset when you've ignored the lane provided for you and instead decided to slow traffic to a grinding halt by taking up an entire lane?

Perhaps people could recognize that the existence of a cycle lane does not necessarily mean that it's safe or even physically possible to cycle within its boundaries.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#93

Post by haukilup »

dmm wrote: post #29
kika wrote: post #17

No, it is not. But it is also not OK to prevent cyclists to kill themselves by car. I've witnessed an accident recently when the car in front of me hit a cyclist. He was: a) riding at night without lights b) running red light c) against the traffic d) without a helmet I'd say this guy (Stanford student, which IMHO implies some intellect) could serve as an encyclopedic definition of our Bay Area cyclist. Cyclists who…

I see cars run stop signs and red lights all the time. I see cars speed everywhere, including neighborhoods with poor visibility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_favoritism

I am still young (20), but in my entire life I have only seen a car run a red light once.

Maybe it's different up here in Canada, though.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#94

Post by consonants »

Lagged2Death wrote: post #6
ck2 wrote: post #3

The US has always had a horrible "you are on your own mentality". I mean, over a hundred kids have been killed by gun rampages in schools over the past several years and nothing has changed. Oh wait, no MORE guns have been made legal and available, not less. So basically the American public becomes trained to be desensitized to deaths, cyclists, schoolkids, drunk driving, etc.

The US has always had a horrible "you are on your own mentality". I get where you're coming from, and I wouldn't say it's wrong, but I really think there's something else going on in this case. If a driver kills a pedestrian or a person driving another car, there are consequences; if a driver kills a cyclist, there are effectively none. That contrast isn't explained by a "you are on your own" mentality.

You're on your own if you're involved in an accident while riding a bike.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#95

Post by kika »

chockablock wrote: post #52
kika wrote: post #17

No, it is not. But it is also not OK to prevent cyclists to kill themselves by car. I've witnessed an accident recently when the car in front of me hit a cyclist. He was: a) riding at night without lights b) running red light c) against the traffic d) without a helmet I'd say this guy (Stanford student, which IMHO implies some intellect) could serve as an encyclopedic definition of our Bay Area cyclist. Cyclists who…

Quite unfair. When I commuted by bike in SF for a couple years, I wore hi-vis clothing, front and rear lights even when it wasn't dark yet (especially at dusk!), and stuck to designated bike routes with calmer traffic when possible. And every day I saw hundreds of other cyclists just like me who didn't have a death wish. The (small-y) yahoos who ride dangerously certainly stand out more, but it's depressing to have f…

I don't see such classy combination at once often, it's just a sum of everything I see. But running lights and stops is very-very common here.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#96

Post by adambard »

kika wrote: post #64
casual_slacker wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say "running stop signs", do you mean a rolling slow-down/speed up if they're the first at the intersection? I do that all the time, not sure if it's legal but it's a pain to stop fully. With cars around I always stop, especially in SF I'd be insane not to.

some of them just speed through the intersection if they consider it safe, I've heard screeching tires a few times, which means they misjudged. Stopping at every stop sign is a financial pain for a motorist, because MPG drops considerably. So what? Stop sign is a stop sign, it means "stop". The solution to this is not ignoring signs because it's a "pain" but to replace stop signs with roundabouts, like in Europe.

Relevant to this discussion: Roundabouts do cyclists no favors whatsoever.

This article cites a number of others on the subject: http://www.cascade.org/2010/11/circular-logic/

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#97

Post by FreakyT »

kyledrake wrote: post #89
FreakyT wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've answered your own question. Why would people be upset when you've ignored the lane provided for you and instead decided to slow traffic to a grinding halt by taking up an entire lane? Certainly, it's unfortunate that the bike lane is poorly maintained, but to wholly place the blame on the drivers strikes me as questionable.

FreakyT, if I ever see you in the street, I'm going to run you over for getting in my way. And it will be called an accident. I do not understand why it is so hard for people to understand this problem, but I've given up hope ever describing it in Internet comments. In the interim, if you ever want to get away with murder, use a car.

That'll teach me a lesson! Seriously though, he said that he was getting run over, he said he was being passed by in a dangerously close way. Have you ever tried to pass a cyclist on a two-lane road without a shoulder? You'll find it's extremely difficult.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#98

Post by busterarm »

YZF wrote: post #90

Story 1 I was on my motorcycle on the left lane in a city when a car way ahead of me just plowed into a bicycle riding on the side of the road ahead of it as if it wasn't there. The car driver was dreaming or sleeping- I don't know. The bicycle rider, an elderly person, almost went through the windshield. Me and some others stopped to help. Luckily he survived. Story 2 When I grew up I was on my bicycle all the time.…

> New riders in a new environment should be very very careful.

Very. I narrowly avoided getting creamed by one of my neighbors who wasn't looking where they were driving about a week after moving here. Unfortunately I tried to hop a 6-inch-plus curb to avoid getting hit and wound up going over the bars and skinning my hands and arms pretty badly.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#99

Post by pjungwir »

busterarm wrote: post #20
kika wrote: post #17

No, it is not. But it is also not OK to prevent cyclists to kill themselves by car. I've witnessed an accident recently when the car in front of me hit a cyclist. He was: a) riding at night without lights b) running red light c) against the traffic d) without a helmet I'd say this guy (Stanford student, which IMHO implies some intellect) could serve as an encyclopedic definition of our Bay Area cyclist. Cyclists who…

scratch off point d. Helmets don't really do anything to protect you unless you practically fall off your bike standing still. I've seen brains on the street from at least two low-speed bike accidents where the cyclist was wearing a helmet. Also, it's not that all cyclists are disobeying the law. Those are just the ones you choose to see. Drivers and pedestrians alike just aren't looking. I always obey traffic laws o…

I saw a bicyclist flip over a car door. He just had a baseball cap on, but it was torn to shreds. I'm glad that wasn't his forehead on the asphalt.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#100

Post by hetman »

mikeash wrote: post #44
dmm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see cars run stop signs and red lights all the time. I see cars speed everywhere, including neighborhoods with poor visibility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_favoritism

I can't remember the last time I saw a car run a red light that wasn't just squeaking by a yellow. I can remember the last time I saw a bicycle do this, it was yesterday and the guy didn't even pretend to stop or care as he obstructed traffic that had the right of way. And not to mention that I see roughly one thousand times (literally) more cars than bicycles on the road. I don't doubt that there is a lot of confirm…

In the other hand see a car do it on a weekly basis where as I can't remember the last time a bicycle did it (and in the few cases I saw it, there was no obstruction of traffic and in fact they were getting a head start to allow traffic to flow more smoothly). So now that we have these disparate anecdotes what happens next?
Post reply on HN