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Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

nytimes.com

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Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#41

Post by k-mcgrady »

busterarm wrote: post #10

I got run over from behind by an MTA bus in New York several years ago and the bus driver drove away. I called the local police precinct (non-emergency line) to report it with the bus number (the 4 digit one on the back) and they repeatedly hung up on me when I told them I was run down by a city bus who drove away.

>> "I got run over from behind by an MTA bus in New York several years ago and the bus driver drove away. I called the local police precinct"

What do you mean you got run over from behind? When I picture that collision the cyclist would be killed or horribly injured. Certainly not able to call the police - and if able to call anyone they would probably call an ambulance.

I'm not doubting you, just confused by the way you've stated it.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#43

Post by casual_slacker »

kika wrote: post #17

No, it is not. But it is also not OK to prevent cyclists to kill themselves by car. I've witnessed an accident recently when the car in front of me hit a cyclist. He was: a) riding at night without lights b) running red light c) against the traffic d) without a helmet I'd say this guy (Stanford student, which IMHO implies some intellect) could serve as an encyclopedic definition of our Bay Area cyclist. Cyclists who…

When you say "running stop signs", do you mean a rolling slow-down/speed up if they're the first at the intersection? I do that all the time, not sure if it's legal but it's a pain to stop fully. With cars around I always stop, especially in SF I'd be insane not to.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#44

Post by mikeash »

dmm wrote: post #29
kika wrote: post #17

No, it is not. But it is also not OK to prevent cyclists to kill themselves by car. I've witnessed an accident recently when the car in front of me hit a cyclist. He was: a) riding at night without lights b) running red light c) against the traffic d) without a helmet I'd say this guy (Stanford student, which IMHO implies some intellect) could serve as an encyclopedic definition of our Bay Area cyclist. Cyclists who…

I see cars run stop signs and red lights all the time. I see cars speed everywhere, including neighborhoods with poor visibility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_favoritism

I can't remember the last time I saw a car run a red light that wasn't just squeaking by a yellow. I can remember the last time I saw a bicycle do this, it was yesterday and the guy didn't even pretend to stop or care as he obstructed traffic that had the right of way.

And not to mention that I see roughly one thousand times (literally) more cars than bicycles on the road.

I don't doubt that there is a lot of confirmation bias going on in this discussion. But there's almost certainly some substantial differences in behavior going on as well.

Bicyclists generally feel more entitled not to stop for stoplights when they feel it's safe to proceed. I've run lights on the bicycle myself, although I always stop, wait long enough to be sure the light isn't going to change on its own, and proceed carefully after checking for traffic. Quite a lot of bicyclists seem to think that the fact that their vehicles are human-powered means they shouldn't have to stop unless it's absolutely necessary.

On the flip side, I'm sure bicyclists violate the speed limit way less often. I'm sure they kill many fewer pedestrians too.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#45

Post by brianobush »

busterarm wrote: post #20
kika wrote: post #17

No, it is not. But it is also not OK to prevent cyclists to kill themselves by car. I've witnessed an accident recently when the car in front of me hit a cyclist. He was: a) riding at night without lights b) running red light c) against the traffic d) without a helmet I'd say this guy (Stanford student, which IMHO implies some intellect) could serve as an encyclopedic definition of our Bay Area cyclist. Cyclists who…

scratch off point d. Helmets don't really do anything to protect you unless you practically fall off your bike standing still. I've seen brains on the street from at least two low-speed bike accidents where the cyclist was wearing a helmet. Also, it's not that all cyclists are disobeying the law. Those are just the ones you choose to see. Drivers and pedestrians alike just aren't looking. I always obey traffic laws o…

Helmets protect you. I slid down a street and my head bounced on the pavement - without a helmet I would have been much worse off. The road rash was enough. Another incident was a truck mirror that grazed my helmet. Nothing major, but in all, the helmet does its job.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#46

Post by notjosh »

busterarm wrote: post #20
kika wrote: post #17

No, it is not. But it is also not OK to prevent cyclists to kill themselves by car. I've witnessed an accident recently when the car in front of me hit a cyclist. He was: a) riding at night without lights b) running red light c) against the traffic d) without a helmet I'd say this guy (Stanford student, which IMHO implies some intellect) could serve as an encyclopedic definition of our Bay Area cyclist. Cyclists who…

scratch off point d. Helmets don't really do anything to protect you unless you practically fall off your bike standing still. I've seen brains on the street from at least two low-speed bike accidents where the cyclist was wearing a helmet. Also, it's not that all cyclists are disobeying the law. Those are just the ones you choose to see. Drivers and pedestrians alike just aren't looking. I always obey traffic laws o…

I had an accident recently as a cyclist with a vehicle, and I thank my helmet a lot for my lack of injury.

The vehicle was a van, and turned right across me going straight (which normally I'd see clearly and avoid, but the way they hesitated implied they'd seen me so I rolled through. Alas.) I'd wager I was going around 20mph/30kph as I hit the side panel. Hips/shoulders first, then I felt my head whiplash into it. Without a helmet, I'd expect at least a mild concussion. With a helmet, I was able to roll away relatively unscathed (minor cuts/bruises) after we exchanged details.

Helmets can help at all/many speeds. They're not a perfect solution, but they're great sometimes. Don't discount them so bluntly :)

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#47

Post by kazagistar »

tsotha wrote: post #12

>So here’s my proposal: Every time you get on a bike, from this moment forward, obey the letter of the law in every traffic exchange everywhere... Hahahahaha. I see a flaw in this plan. I don't see why the author views a lack of criminal charges as evidence of some kind of travesty of justice. If a cyclist gets run down by someone who didn't see him, that's an accident, not a crime.

You would be more likely to see the cyclist if you were faced with jail time for not seeing him.

There is something deeply wrong with the attitude of "whoops, didn't see him, guess he's dead now, YOLO."

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#48

Post by swalling »

It's no surprise the author of this piece is from San Francisco. SF is a particularly dangerous city to cycle in, at least for commuters. Riding on the main drags of Market street, Mission, and others is exceedingly dangerous, since drivers are reckless and you're competing with MUNI buses, streetcars, and in packed cycling lanes.

I'm originally from Portland, which is a cyclist's heaven for a major city, but there's still too much competition with cars. I've also spent time in small towns like Davis, which is probably the cycling capital of the States. The only solution I can see for really safe cycling is to create cycling-only lanes that don't compete with cars and pedestrians.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#49

Post by hristov »

kika wrote: post #17

No, it is not. But it is also not OK to prevent cyclists to kill themselves by car. I've witnessed an accident recently when the car in front of me hit a cyclist. He was: a) riding at night without lights b) running red light c) against the traffic d) without a helmet I'd say this guy (Stanford student, which IMHO implies some intellect) could serve as an encyclopedic definition of our Bay Area cyclist. Cyclists who…

Cyclists running red lights are a big problem in LA. I am very much in favor of cycling, but you have to follow the laws. I know it is a pain in the ass to stop at every stoplight when you have to use your own muscles to accelerate, but you have to do it.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#50

Post by 3825 »

busterarm wrote: post #20
kika wrote: post #17

No, it is not. But it is also not OK to prevent cyclists to kill themselves by car. I've witnessed an accident recently when the car in front of me hit a cyclist. He was: a) riding at night without lights b) running red light c) against the traffic d) without a helmet I'd say this guy (Stanford student, which IMHO implies some intellect) could serve as an encyclopedic definition of our Bay Area cyclist. Cyclists who…

scratch off point d. Helmets don't really do anything to protect you unless you practically fall off your bike standing still. I've seen brains on the street from at least two low-speed bike accidents where the cyclist was wearing a helmet. Also, it's not that all cyclists are disobeying the law. Those are just the ones you choose to see. Drivers and pedestrians alike just aren't looking. I always obey traffic laws o…

> pedestrians alike just aren't looking

You mentioned you obey the law so you probably don't do this. Even if the law does not prohibit riding on the sidewalk, you should never ride on the sidewalk.

Just wanted to take this time to remind everyone that bicycles do not belong on the sidewalk.

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