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Pyret: A new programming language from the creators of Racket

pyret.org

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Re: Pyret: A new programming language from the creators of Racket

#21

Post by ufo »

terhechte wrote: post #3

"""Pyret makes testing a natural part of the programming process. Functions can end in a where: clause that holds unit tests for the function. These assertions are checked dynamically.""" Fantastic idea! I'll keep that in mind, should be fairly easy to extend Lisps or other AST-Macro enabled languages (Elixir, Julia, Python) with such a functionality. I really like that. It makes it easy to work on a function and cod…

Racket has a very powerful contract system that you might want to out. It also has support for higher-order contracts on functions (contracts that have delayed checks instead of being just assertions) and they also have a typed version of Racket (Typed Racket) built using the contract system.

Re: Pyret: A new programming language from the creators of Racket

#23

Post by eliben »

terhechte wrote: post #3

"""Pyret makes testing a natural part of the programming process. Functions can end in a where: clause that holds unit tests for the function. These assertions are checked dynamically.""" Fantastic idea! I'll keep that in mind, should be fairly easy to extend Lisps or other AST-Macro enabled languages (Elixir, Julia, Python) with such a functionality. I really like that. It makes it easy to work on a function and cod…

I'm not sure I like having tests in the same file with the code. In real code bases it's very common to just read the code, and cluttering that with huge swaths of unit-tests is counter-productive.

That said, Pyret appears to be aimed at education so this may make more sense.

Re: Pyret: A new programming language from the creators of Racket

#24

Post by vidarh »

terhechte wrote: post #3

"""Pyret makes testing a natural part of the programming process. Functions can end in a where: clause that holds unit tests for the function. These assertions are checked dynamically.""" Fantastic idea! I'll keep that in mind, should be fairly easy to extend Lisps or other AST-Macro enabled languages (Elixir, Julia, Python) with such a functionality. I really like that. It makes it easy to work on a function and cod…

Sounds like Eiffel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eiffel_(programming_language)#D...

Re: Pyret: A new programming language from the creators of Racket

#25

Post by f7t7ft7 »

andybak wrote: post #12
klrr wrote: post #10

This project seems really promising, but I got one concern. Lisp's syntax have been one of its strength for beginners. Easy to learn, easy to solve common errors. I don't see the point of having Python-like syntax really, the user could learn other syntax after they've understood programming .

My jaw dropped slightly to see someone suggest Lisp syntax would be a better starting place for beginners than Python's syntax. Is it just me or is that a fairly unorthodox point of view?

MIT used to teach intro to CS using Scheme, I thought. It's significantly simpler than Python.

Re: Pyret: A new programming language from the creators of Racket

#26

Post by adrusi »

andybak wrote: post #12
klrr wrote: post #10

This project seems really promising, but I got one concern. Lisp's syntax have been one of its strength for beginners. Easy to learn, easy to solve common errors. I don't see the point of having Python-like syntax really, the user could learn other syntax after they've understood programming .

My jaw dropped slightly to see someone suggest Lisp syntax would be a better starting place for beginners than Python's syntax. Is it just me or is that a fairly unorthodox point of view?

No that's fairly normal. It's the whole reason the scheme language, the second most popular lisp, was created. it's lost favor to python and java and c++ because those languages have more of a foothold outside of academia and might be more useful to students who only take a couple cs courses.

Re: Pyret: A new programming language from the creators of Racket

#27

Post by ek »

klrr wrote: post #10

This project seems really promising, but I got one concern. Lisp's syntax have been one of its strength for beginners. Easy to learn, easy to solve common errors. I don't see the point of having Python-like syntax really, the user could learn other syntax after they've understood programming .

Like it or not, universities have started to move away from teaching Scheme to introductory CS students. You may remember that much was made of MIT and Berkeley switching away from Scheme for Python. I think Pyret comes out of a precedent of Python as the new standard, so in that light, it's certainly an improvement.

Re: Pyret: A new programming language from the creators of Racket

#28

Post by ash »

6ren wrote: post #16
terhechte wrote: post #3

"""Pyret makes testing a natural part of the programming process. Functions can end in a where: clause that holds unit tests for the function. These assertions are checked dynamically.""" Fantastic idea! I'll keep that in mind, should be fairly easy to extend Lisps or other AST-Macro enabled languages (Elixir, Julia, Python) with such a functionality. I really like that. It makes it easy to work on a function and cod…

It clutters the code. Tests are a form of documentation, but too much in the code, like too many comments, obscures. Higher level unit tests (acceptance tests) can be quite long, especially if there's a lot of setup - unlike their example code. Literate programming tried embedded documentation, but didn't catch on (even with Knuth's backing). Embedding tests makes them easier to keep in sync, but tests are already ke…

> Literate programming… didn't catch on

I would argue literate programming is experiencing a renaissance, thanks to docco:

https://github.com/jashkenas/docco

Re: Pyret: A new programming language from the creators of Racket

#29

Post by klrr »

andybak wrote: post #12
klrr wrote: post #10

This project seems really promising, but I got one concern. Lisp's syntax have been one of its strength for beginners. Easy to learn, easy to solve common errors. I don't see the point of having Python-like syntax really, the user could learn other syntax after they've understood programming .

My jaw dropped slightly to see someone suggest Lisp syntax would be a better starting place for beginners than Python's syntax. Is it just me or is that a fairly unorthodox point of view?

Lisp syntax is ( ) with a few special forms (def, if, cond etc.). This is really easy to understand and allows the user to go straight forward and learn about the semantics and general programming practice immediately.

Re: Pyret: A new programming language from the creators of Racket

#30

Post by takikawa »

Pyret has lots of nice ideas, looking forward to see it evolve.

That said, the title of this post is a bit misleading so I wanted to correct it. The group of people who develop Racket and Pyret are mostly disjoint. I'm not trying to diminish Pyret at all, but wanted to make sure the right people get the credit. You can find out who develops Pyret here: http://www.pyret.org/crew/

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