Surnames offer depressing clues to extent of social mobility over generations
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Re: Surnames offer depressing clues to extent of social mobility over generations
#2This is a very interesting article. Particularly commendable is the complete listing of the source papers, so that readers can delve more deeply into the material.
I wonder, however, whether the surname analysis took into account the effects of the changes in surname frequency over time -- as I recall, it was Galton who investigated statistically how the surname distributions change with time, and the point is that the number of unique surnames goes down over time, because each child usually has only one of their parents' surnames. So it's not clear to me that we would expect the wealth distribution of uncommon surnames to become more equal over time. Maybe that would explain the disparity between the surname analysis and other measures of social mobility?
Re: Surnames offer depressing clues to extent of social mobility over generations
#3It's amazing how this works, I've been Paying some attention to this stuff for some time, and it is mostly like that. I've observed 3rd generation families of wealthy landlords and/or bankers (the ones that made the fortune). It's just anecdotal, but the ones that put more effort and attention on education and hardwork (not having access to the money till they are out of the university and have proved their capabilities) are the ones able to mainatain or increase the wealth of the family. On the other hand, those that just surf their lives through the existing money, are able to put themselves down the ladder at surprising speed (like 15 years once they get access to the principal of the money) their sons will be low middle class (or mileuristas as we say in Spain).
All this is obvious of course, but It's interesting to follow this people's evolution. The ones loosing it don't have a clue of what's happening to them.
Edit: some typos and sentences.
Re: Surnames offer depressing clues to extent of social mobility over generations
#4"Such competence is potentially heritable and is reinforced by the human tendency to mate with partners of similar traits and ability."
I think this raises a very important question: How far are we willing to go to pursue equality in the modern age? It seems that -- generally -- there is an inevitable tendency of humans to mate with someone of similar "stature" or "capacity". Of course, like any generalization, there are exceptions, but it certainly seems that we each possess a certain amount of "personal capital" which determines our worthiness as a mate. Can we really prevent the good from mating with the good, and the bad from getting stuck with the bad, generally? Is that even a goal worth pursuing? Such presumption seems to be in conflict with nature itself.
It's almost amusing how the modern era is so committed to the science of evolution and yet works so hard to derationalize it!
Re: Surnames offer depressing clues to extent of social mobility over generations
#5I think using professions ("lawyer") as a proxy for privilege is a little bit problematic. I'm sure I could have been a lawyer, but I never considered it because I'd never met a lawyer. It just wasn't on my radar.
Instead, I became an engineer. My grandfather & father had been engineers, so working in industry, making things was something that I could conceive. I'm sure I didn't suffer financially - I'm better off than all the lawyers I know.
So, to reiterate my point: Using a particular career as a proxy for social mobility is problematic, because life choices can be "sticky" between generations.
Re: Surnames offer depressing clues to extent of social mobility over generations
#6Fun fact: 21% of Koreans have the family name "Kim" (means "gold"):
Re: Surnames offer depressing clues to extent of social mobility over generations
#7it would be interesting to see as a baseline the study of for how many generations descendants of an alpha lion/wolf/gorilla get into the alpha position themselves, if any.
Re: Surnames offer depressing clues to extent of social mobility over generations
#8Interesting article, but I was a bit disappointed; I was expecting it to look at names originally derived from occupations, like Baker or Smith. Their approach obviously makes more sense; it's just not as much fun.
Re: Surnames offer depressing clues to extent of social mobility over generations
#9"Such competence is potentially heritable and is reinforced by the human tendency to mate with partners of similar traits and ability." I think this raises a very important question: How far are we willing to go to pursue equality in the modern age? It seems that -- generally -- there is an inevitable tendency of humans to mate with someone of similar "stature" or "capacity". Of course, like any generalization, there…
The main point of equality it to allow a brilliant child of a not so brilliant parents to bring as much value to society as he can. If a very bright kid is born in a farmer's family, we want he/she to become a top member of the society and work on the hard to solve problems, and not become a KFC store manager.
Equality of chance and fluidity is as important to society as it is to individuals. Of course there is a price to pay, for this to be possible it also means that this kid's education will be as far as possible removed from his parents world of view and opinions, and be set under society's values and management, which would be detrimental if the parents could have actually given a better education. But I think it's something we should strive for in balanced proportions.
Re: Surnames offer depressing clues to extent of social mobility over generations
#10It's intersting how generations of successfull girls each marrying someone higher in society than her parents wouldn't be traced by this study on surnames.