What Long Hours Really Mean • Hacker News Board

Re: What Long Hours Really Mean

#221

Post by mattlutze » Fri, Nov 08, 2013, 11:18 AM UTC

rwallace wrote: post #117

mattlutze wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every human being deserves an average of 8 hours of work, 8 hours of family/leisure, 8 hours of sleep and 2 days a week free. "[...]deserves an average of 8 hours of work[...]" "[...]2 days a week free[...]" I think that's the snake oil you're smelling. How does society ensure this can happen? With laws, of course! Why, we can just make overtime and >5 in every 7 days with worked hours illegal, it's so simple...

It worked fine in France, ended up raising the overall productivity of their economy. France now has a higher standard of living than the US, so it might be worth looking at what they're doing right.

Legislatively-prescribed limits like this on work, for me, would be too statist.

Now, I very much believe in the spirit of the concept. Bertrand Russell hit the nail:

http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html

But through legislation, no. It needs to be a culturally grown movement.

Also, the US has a higher Human Development Index rating than France: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Deve...

and on whatever the Legatum Prosperity Index is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legatum_Prosperity_Index

and Germany's OECD's Better Life Index (using the "weigh all of these equally" measure): http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/#11111111111

I would argue that standard of living is higher in the US.

Re: What Long Hours Really Mean

#222

Post by mattlutze » Fri, Nov 08, 2013, 2:42 PM UTC

rwallace wrote: post #117

mattlutze wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every human being deserves an average of 8 hours of work, 8 hours of family/leisure, 8 hours of sleep and 2 days a week free. "[...]deserves an average of 8 hours of work[...]" "[...]2 days a week free[...]" I think that's the snake oil you're smelling. How does society ensure this can happen? With laws, of course! Why, we can just make overtime and >5 in every 7 days with worked hours illegal, it's so simple...

It worked fine in France, ended up raising the overall productivity of their economy. France now has a higher standard of living than the US, so it might be worth looking at what they're doing right.

Also, this just happened:

http://news.yahoo.com/p-downgrades-france-credit-rating-aa-0...

Re: What Long Hours Really Mean

#223

Post by philwelch » Fri, Nov 08, 2013, 4:44 PM UTC

quinnchr wrote: post #220

philwelch wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He already believes he's the sole exception to everything he's observed by definition of being a solipsist.

No? How does him being unsure that reality exists outside his own mind mean he believes he's the sole exception? I mean if you're unsure there is a reality outside of your own mind, wouldn't that make you more risk adverse? Your death could potentially mean that everyone you've ever known/loved would cease to exist, even if they are a product of your unconscious mind...

> No? How does him being unsure that reality exists outside his own mind mean he believes he's the sole exception?

A solipsist isn't "unsure", he definitely believes reality doesn't exist outside of his own mind. That alone sets him apart from everyone and everything else in the universe, because a solipsist believes he is the only one who actually exists.

Re: What Long Hours Really Mean

#224

Post by quinnchr » Fri, Nov 08, 2013, 5:50 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #223

quinnchr wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No? How does him being unsure that reality exists outside his own mind mean he believes he's the sole exception? I mean if you're unsure there is a reality outside of your own mind, wouldn't that make you more risk adverse? Your death could potentially mean that everyone you've ever known/loved would cease to exist, even if they are a product of your unconscious mind...

> No? How does him being unsure that reality exists outside his own mind mean he believes he's the sole exception? A solipsist isn't "unsure", he definitely believes reality doesn't exist outside of his own mind. That alone sets him apart from everyone and everything else in the universe, because a solipsist believes he is the only one who actually exists.

That's a pretty unique definition of solipsism. As far as I'm aware a solipsist believes he can't know if reality exists outside his own mind.

But we've strayed pretty far from my original point, which was that you can't disregard centuries of philosophical thought with a story that doesn't address any of the arguments of the ontological frameworks it's trying to refute. I'm not personally a solipsist, but solipsism is by definition not falsifiable, so I'm a little confused about where this conversation is supposed to go...