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An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

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Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#61

Post by skylan_q »

nisa wrote: post #55
veganarchocap wrote: post #48

I don't understand people who are even against sweatshops, do they really want to deprive these areas of the only jobs they do have? The middle-class westerners have good intentions, sure. Do they really think though, but starving sweatshops to the point of closure, all the staff will walk into well paid work? No, in all probability, the lack of competition and the low budgets will mean they have to fight over even w…

That's cynical and easy to write from a warm chair in a western country. The problem are the conditions that make sweat-shops the least worst alternative for a lot of people. It's power, money and corruption. There is no financial gain for western corporations or governments to really solve these problems. We profit from the political and economical instability in these countries and therefore from the suffering thes…

The problem are the conditions that make sweat-shops the least worst alternative for a lot of people. It's power, money and corruption.

If the least worst alternative is taken away from them, then they have only the next least worst alternative. Asking to take this away is asking to take away the best thing they have.

It's easy to write from a warm chair in a western country that people should have better job conditions considering the availability of jobs that allow for consumerism.

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#62

Post by skylan_q »

furyg3 wrote: post #59
veganarchocap wrote: post #48

I don't understand people who are even against sweatshops, do they really want to deprive these areas of the only jobs they do have? The middle-class westerners have good intentions, sure. Do they really think though, but starving sweatshops to the point of closure, all the staff will walk into well paid work? No, in all probability, the lack of competition and the low budgets will mean they have to fight over even w…

There must be ground rules for the game of capitalism. Market's are awesome at balancing things like price/quality/features. Most consumers can do that, and if they can't, well... caveat emptor. But if the quality is so bad that people die, or are maimed, poisoned, or otherwise injured, we have different rules. Consumers aren't good at this, they aren't experts, they don't have the right information. So they turn to…

These ethical factors are, of course, a trade-off with the others. Sweatshops and child labor are immoral, we will not tolerate that.

If we don't tolerate those, then we don't tolerate giving them the best alternative possible. Asking for more would make it uneconomical, and thus, economically destructive.

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#63

Post by floobynewb »

alextingle wrote: post #24
KyeRussell wrote: post #11

Can we please stop with all this Anonymous BS? The point of the 'movement' is that it's decentralised. 'Anonymous' can't write 'open letters'. This is just pathetic.

Well, "Anonymous" didn't write that letter. Some specific activist wrote it, and has posted it under the Anonymous "brand". If the wider movement likes it (and they should because it's well written and spot on target) then they will promote it and adopt it as theirs. We don't know who wrote the piece. The author is anonymous, but their words will probably reach a far, far wider audience than if they had published und…

Yes! Not enough people get this. Anonymous is a name for a loose, evolving affiliation of ideas, it is not a specific group of people. It personifies a set of beliefs, a view of the world, it allows a hive mind to express itself as an individual. It allows the ideas to speak for themselves. In so doing it allows those ideas to evolve more rapidly.

I am not well versed in history, so I can't say if this is novel, but it is a fabulous idea.

It is clear to me that, just as thought can emerge from the movement of charge between networks of neurons so can it emerge from the chatter of a million people. The same processes are at work, you might call it 'emergence' but I suspect that our mathematics does not yet capture it's description adequately.

This is the kind of system we need to develop and enhance if we are to create a better world. Our social structure is prescriptive and too rigidly hierarchical, it has broken away from it's dynamic, organic roots and lost touch with the magic that seems to generate flexible and resilient structure out of nothing.

If you accept the isomorphism between the mind and society, then you may see that the internet is radically disruptive. It has made communication orders of magnitude faster and it has changed the topology of the network described by society. This is changing us, quickly. For better or worse remains to be seen. But I suspect the effects of the internet revolution are only now beginning.

Perhaps I'm just seeing what I want to see...

The battle outside ragin' Will soon shake your windows And rattle your walls For the times they are a-changin'

(attribution should not be needed)

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#64

Post by [deleted] »

nisa wrote: post #55
veganarchocap wrote: post #48

I don't understand people who are even against sweatshops, do they really want to deprive these areas of the only jobs they do have? The middle-class westerners have good intentions, sure. Do they really think though, but starving sweatshops to the point of closure, all the staff will walk into well paid work? No, in all probability, the lack of competition and the low budgets will mean they have to fight over even w…

That's cynical and easy to write from a warm chair in a western country. The problem are the conditions that make sweat-shops the least worst alternative for a lot of people. It's power, money and corruption. There is no financial gain for western corporations or governments to really solve these problems. We profit from the political and economical instability in these countries and therefore from the suffering thes…

[deleted]

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#65

Post by ehmuidifici »

raverbashing wrote: post #26
Ygg2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you know, papercraft the suckers, its not like there aren't papercraft versions of it. My roommate made me one.

Thanks, this gave me a smile People think "oh let's build a startup for 3d-printing model this on the cloud, blah blah blah" Where anyone with modest skills can build this using scissors, some cardboard, or Papier-Maché or some other technique.

But this kind of mask won't protect your face against rubber balls shot by police - in Brazil, for example. Yeah, neither resine mask will do, but its slightly better.

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#66

Post by andyking »

anigbrowl wrote: post #29
nonchalance wrote: post #3

Are the Guardian, the Telegraph and the New Statesman notable for their fair and balanced journalism (or are they the fox news of europe)?

A famous quote from the satirical political TV comedy Yes, Minister sums up the British press fairly well. Amusingly, one of the characters is named Jim Hacker. Hacker: Don't tell me about the press. I know exactly who reads the papers: the Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country; The Guardian is read by people who think they ought to run the country; The Times is read by people who actually do…

> the Morning Star is now defunct

They still sell it where I live.

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#67

Post by mhurron »

foucault wrote: post #19

The masks represent: Unity Equality Struggle against oppression That is all. Fuck warner brothers Guy Fawkes was the only person to enter the houses of parliament with honourable intentions

There is little honourable about Fawkes intentions, however the actual quote is "the last man to enter Parliament with honest intentions."

Which makes a lot more sense. He said he was going to blow things up, he went in to blow things up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#68

Post by netrus »

skylan_q wrote: post #62
furyg3 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There must be ground rules for the game of capitalism. Market's are awesome at balancing things like price/quality/features. Most consumers can do that, and if they can't, well... caveat emptor. But if the quality is so bad that people die, or are maimed, poisoned, or otherwise injured, we have different rules. Consumers aren't good at this, they aren't experts, they don't have the right information. So they turn to…

These ethical factors are, of course, a trade-off with the others. Sweatshops and child labor are immoral, we will not tolerate that. If we don't tolerate those, then we don't tolerate giving them the best alternative possible. Asking for more would make it uneconomical, and thus, economically destructive.

Do I understand you correctly, you suggest child labor should be legal, because a ban on child labor would limit their freedom, and they had to choose a worse alternative?

If so: Lat me tell you that 1) people are bad at evaluating their alternatives. Thats why we force our children to attend school as well, because our children might underestimate the long term positive effect school education might have for them, and 2) a child in a sweatshop might not have taken the decision to work for itself - it might rather work for the immediate benefit of their family, while taking the long term loss alone.

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#69

Post by Ygg2 »

eddiedunn wrote: post #47
Ygg2 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we are moving to a such world, albeit slowly. 3D printers are a movement in that direction, that ends with mini factories or replicators. Replicators will be the death kneel of the factories.

"Death knell", please. While I see why one would confuse "knell" with "kneel", this is incorrect and the words have vastly different meanings. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_knell http://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/knell

Given time, they'll mean the same. Like ironic meaning funnily or alot meaning lots of stuff.

Funnily I thought it means a final blow, that breaks a back of something over the knee.

Re: An open letter to the media, by Anonymous

#70

Post by e12e »

ck2 wrote: post #33
_bfhp wrote: post #9

The following quote is relevant here: “WOULD ANY SANE PERSON think dumpster diving would have stopped Hitler, or that composting would have ended slavery or brought about the eight-hour workday, or that chopping wood and carrying water would have gotten people out of Tsarist prisons, or that dancing naked around a fire would have helped put in place the Voting Rights Act of 1957 or the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Then…

Speaking of foxconn, this story sadly got buried today http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-11-07/an-iphone-te... But it is very much worth reading.

Thank you for (re?)posting this. Very interesting indeed (if, sadly, not very surprising).
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