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A culture of beer and overtime

jayhuang.org

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Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#141

Post by will_work4tears »

jayhuang wrote: post #113
will_work4tears wrote: post #16

Having no experience with startups, I gotta say that I have some sympathy and it sounds horrible, however, what does this have to do with beer? I read the whole story and you had one friday night, after hours, with beer, and you didn't partake as you are a teetotaler. That's fine. I didn't see any other references to that fact, so I'm confused how it has anything to do with the story. It doesn't sound like they have…

Yea, it probably wasn't the best title, but in terms of "beer nights", they were more frequent than 1, I just don't want to ramble on and on.

Makes sense. From the sound of things I have to say that I'm very glad I don't work in a startup, or at least a startup like that place. I even enjoy beer (please though, don't assume I'm a 'brogrammer'), but can't imagine having to go to parties with my coworkers and being judged if I don't drink, or drink too much, etc.

Also, those hours, ugh.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#142

Post by mdpopescu »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #126
beachstartup wrote: post #22

> One would mean I would be moving to Palo Alto, California, where I would be joining a well-known, highly successful, technology company. The pay was great, and working there would make any future job hunts virtually non-existent. in my humble opinion, the only time you should pass up an offer like that is to work on your own startup. after all did you not apply, and interview, and compete fo, and WANT the job? i do…

I got an offer much like this (though located in SF, not Palo Alto). I took it, because my only other offer at the time was for roughly half the salary. I ended up leaving after what was considered a surprisingly short time because I didn't particularly like living in the area. There are other aspects to life than having a famous employer. That said, I'm with you that it's an attractive opportunity. But founding a co…

Ah... yes. I have no idea why it's still so hard to find remote jobs in 2013. I really, really don't want to move my whole family yet again because you really like my smell or something.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#143

Post by mattlutze »

teebrz wrote: post #94
jaf656s wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were treated fairly. Bluntly but fairly. When you turn in your resignation, your notice is just an offer of a grace period. They are not obligated to take you up on your offer.

To be clear, the specific part you mention is fair...but I don't think anyone would object to that. The part where it seems somewhat unfair is where the director asked weixiyen to give up pay they were entitled to. It's fair enough to ask for a favor ("hey, do you mind using up your vacay days before you leave?"), but you should make clear that it is a favor and what it entails - it sounds like that may not have done…

Unless the state has particular laws, every contract I've had as an employee allows me to quit at any time, and be fired at any time, without reason given.

The director was under no obligation, after that notice, to allow him to work those last two weeks and then take the vacation. He was obligated to pay the vacation as it was compensation earned by weixiyen. But weixiyen (again, could be wrong if his/her state has certain laws) had no legal grounds to compel the company to allow him/her to continue working.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#144

Post by vinceguidry »

x0x0 wrote: post #85
vinceguidry wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ugly out there. I think my secret is that I didn't really get into the office world until my late twenties. By then I'd bounced around dozens of different jobs, been in and out of the military, college, sales, construction. I've been fired at as many jobs as I've quit. Now I see this stuff going on and I'm wise to it. Four months ago I started working for this company, the understanding was I'd work for three mo…

Vince -- I don't want to piss on your parade, but I've worked for dishonest people and it's never worked out for me: every time I've done it I've come to regret it. You may want to start looking... Good luck.

No, these guys are great, it's just that the CFO decided I needed a few more months to stew, it's that bean counter mentality. If they really sucked, I'd have already been gone, it just wouldn't have been worth it to fight.

It wasn't just me bitching to my recruiter. From what I gathered, my boss got like all the department heads to go by his office and ask him when they're bringing me on. He didn't want to brag, and I think he wanted to let me have my victory, but it's as much due to him as it to me.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#145

Post by vinceguidry »

levosmetalo wrote: post #115
vinceguidry wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ugly out there. I think my secret is that I didn't really get into the office world until my late twenties. By then I'd bounced around dozens of different jobs, been in and out of the military, college, sales, construction. I've been fired at as many jobs as I've quit. Now I see this stuff going on and I'm wise to it. Four months ago I started working for this company, the understanding was I'd work for three mo…

I hope you left this company anyways as soon as you found something looking better.

It's a really cool job. My coworkers are awesome, no one's looking over my shoulder, my boss loves me. The work is interesting to me, and I have a shot at making a real difference. (to the company, not the world) I really couldn't ask for anything better in a job at this point in my career. But I need to get paid.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#146

Post by thaumasiotes »

mdpopescu wrote: post #142
thaumasiotes wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got an offer much like this (though located in SF, not Palo Alto). I took it, because my only other offer at the time was for roughly half the salary. I ended up leaving after what was considered a surprisingly short time because I didn't particularly like living in the area. There are other aspects to life than having a famous employer. That said, I'm with you that it's an attractive opportunity. But founding a co…

Ah... yes. I have no idea why it's still so hard to find remote jobs in 2013. I really, really don't want to move my whole family yet again because you really like my smell or something.

This isn't a full answer to that question, but I'm pretty sure it's related...

I remember seeing a post by someone asking for advice, his problem being "what can I do to counter people's assumption that ?" (s mark my paraphrasing).

This problem is, in fact, a source of great aggravation to almost everyone I know.

And the best response, which stuck with me, was "nothing; it's an assumption by someone you don't know".

There really are a host of advantages to dealing with other people in person. And if you're thinking of hiring a stranger, you really don't know most of what you want to know. And the connection between workplace and remote worker is necessarily more tenuous.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#147

Post by rmc »

ryan-allen wrote: post #40

To me this is less about 'beer and overtime' and more about conformity to pre-existing culture. It doesn't matter if it's beer or if it's Star Trek or if it's an religious-like attitude to Cucumber Testing or even if it's a tech company or not, the fact is that some potential asshole who's on a slightly higher salary than you can decide to fuck with your livelihood if you don't tow some intangible line that matters t…

No-where has "full capitalism". There are some conditions that you cannot attach to a paycheck.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#148

Post by aestra »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #57
fragsworth wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Cultural fit" isn't bullshit, it's just a euphemism for how reasonable someone's personality is. It's easier to say "I don't think they'll fit our culture" instead of saying "their personality sucks"

Agree with this completely. Cultural fit is (imo) the most important hiring criteria (way way more important than experience with the language). Employees are going to be part of your team for at least two years. If your team can't stand them then that's going to be painful. However, "Cultural Fit" used as an excuse to prevent team diversity is bullshit. Every study done on it has proven that diversity increases team…

>Every study done on it has proven that diversity increases team productivity

Which studies?

They don't say that, exactly.

http://www.academia.edu/887990/The_effects_of_team_diversity...

Over the past few decades,a great deal of research has been conducted to examine the complexrelationship between team diversity and team outcomes. However,the impact of team diversity onteam outcomes and moderating variables potentially affecting this relationship are still not fullyanswered with mixed findings in the literature. These research issues were,therefore,addressed byquantitatively reviewing extant work and provided estimates of the relationship between team diver-sity and team outcomes. In particular,the effects of task-related and bio-demographic diversity at the group-level were meta-analyzed to test the hypothesis of synergistic performance resulting fromdiverse employee teams. Support was found for the positive impact of task-related diversity on team performance although bio-demographic diversity was not significantly related to team perfor-mance. Similarly,no discernible effect of team diversity was found on social integration. The impli-cations of the review for future research and practices are also discussed.

http://www.palgrave-journals.com/jibs/journal/v41/n4/abs/jib...

Previous research on the role of cultural diversity in teams is equivocal, suggesting that cultural diversity's effect on teams is mediated by specific team processes, and moderated by contextual variables. To reconcile conflicting perspectives and past results, we propose that cultural diversity affects teams through process losses and gains associated with increased divergence and decreased convergence. We examine whether the level (surface-level vs deep-level) and type (cross-national vs intra-national) of cultural diversity affect these processes differently. We hypothesize that task complexity and structural aspects of the team, such as team size, team tenure, and team dispersion, moderate the effects of cultural diversity on teams. We test the hypotheses with a meta-analysis of 108 empirical studies on processes and performance in 10,632 teams. Results suggest that cultural diversity leads to process losses through task conflict and decreased social integration, but to process gains through increased creativity and satisfaction. The effects are almost identical for both levels and types of cultural diversity. Moderator analyses reveal that the effects of cultural diversity vary, depending on contextual influences, as well as on research design and sample characteristics. We propose an agenda for future research, and identify implications for managers.

That being said, I still don't advocate a monoculture environment, if not for one reason, it isn't the right thing to do to discriminate.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#149

Post by new299 »

ryan-allen wrote: post #40

To me this is less about 'beer and overtime' and more about conformity to pre-existing culture. It doesn't matter if it's beer or if it's Star Trek or if it's an religious-like attitude to Cucumber Testing or even if it's a tech company or not, the fact is that some potential asshole who's on a slightly higher salary than you can decide to fuck with your livelihood if you don't tow some intangible line that matters t…

> As long as you have a list of conditions attached to your paycheck, this isn't going to change. It sucks, but it is how it is. You either have to play the game or find some place to work where the game is tolerable to you and your values. It doesn't matter how you cast it, but there's always a game to be played, some will seem more virtuous than others, and that will change from person to person.

A reasonable workplace would be able to accommodate people with different personalities and viewpoints as long as they treat each other with respect and consideration. Such workplaces are however quite rare.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#150

Post by logn »

jacalata wrote: post #103
yummyfajitas wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do they save money? If you use your 2 weeks of vacation, they send you a check for 2 weeks pay at the end. The exact same thing would happen if you cashed out your vacation days, albeit with slightly different paperwork.

No. He offered to work two weeks, which would have meant they owed him two weeks of pay plus two weeks of vacation days. Instead he took two weeks of vacation pay and no pay for work.

Yeah but it's the same difference. If you resign, they can ask you to immediately stop working. At that point, you're cut a check for your vacation days. If the company decides to let you use your vacation days, you're paid with a normal payroll check. It should amount to about the same thing. I'm guessing this made things simpler paperwork-wise but amounted to the same pay. And the employee would also get two weeks with health benefits.
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