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A culture of beer and overtime

jayhuang.org

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Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#121

Post by furyg3 »

70 hours a week is just crazy. Working 14 hour days for even a week sprint is a really awful week, and represents serious bad planning, bad management, or a massive resource shortage. Expecting that kind of workload on a sustained basis is not just a bad organizational culture, it's borderline unethical.

On our team, if these kinds of workloads start popping up before a product launch, there is a serious discussion about it. It means that someone over promised, and that person needs to be taken to task.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#122

Post by hamburglar »

jayhuang wrote: post #120
hamburglar wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about the beer parties, or the linkedin profile, or the personal website. It's about a petty PM with no legitimate complaints who has the misguided notion that you should be working 70 hours, and he is casting about for stupid reasons to call you "not committed." If that PM had any actual authority, then the author was 100% right to leave. Even if he didn't, that may not have been an environment you want t…

I definitely agree with you. I've made attempts on 2 separate days to speak with the PM about his petty excuses to label me as "not committed". Of course, that includes pointing out that the 3 points he brought up are completely irrelevant in terms of measuring my commitment, but in the end, it was impossible to reason with him, and I just didn't want to put up with that anymore.

Fair enough. It's easy to armchair quarterback and talk about what we would have done in your shoes. Good for you for getting out of there.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#124

Post by digitalzombie »

patio11 wrote: post #5

n.b. It was time to leave, and the HR lady came to me and said I would have to sign a release letter and send it back within 2 work days (the following Monday was a holiday), otherwise I would not get any of the remaining pay I'm not familiar with the law in Canada, but I rather suspect that it's similar to America, so a bit of advice for the young and impressionable: virtually no threat to not pay an employee wages…

I did that with an old employee when the lead was an asshole.

How he calculate how much I work is base on how he feels like how much I work. Apparently the first day didn't count cause I spent the day root hacking an old employee Apple Laptop cause he didn't ask and refused to ask an old employee for the password (cause the guy was a dick apparently).

I just told them, repeatedly, "I would like to get paid for the amount that I've worked for". I calmly calculated the days I've worked and ask him if there were anything wrong with my calculated days and that we can talk about it. But I would like to get paid for the days I've worked. Lead email was like look man I don't wanna fight you I just feel like you work less but whatever. For the record he was a dick and a bully and basically said, this is how the place is going to be run if you don't like it you can leave. I told him that I'll leave.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#125

Post by thaumasiotes »

pcrh wrote: post #38
ztnewman wrote: post #25

I don't understand what beer culture has to do with the majority of the post

It's mainly a reference to a "party" that was held at the employers premises where beer was consumed, OP doesn't drink alcohol. In any case, while this was apparently a pretty "lame" party, it appears to have been an important part of the culture of the firm, and OP didn't jibe with it very well.

I've experienced one party held at my (then) employer's premises. Alcohol (as I recall, mainly wine) was consumed. I don't drink.

There was thanksgiving food; there was cake; a few people brought small children; my boss played an instrument and sang for us. It was great.

Basically I agree with you that the "party" described was lame. The problem isn't that there was beer at an on-premises party even though OP doesn't drink. The problem is (definitely) tacit mandatoriness and (to a much lesser extent) that the party didn't have anything to offer other than a chance to show that you're "dedicated".

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#126

Post by thaumasiotes »

beachstartup wrote: post #22

> One would mean I would be moving to Palo Alto, California, where I would be joining a well-known, highly successful, technology company. The pay was great, and working there would make any future job hunts virtually non-existent. in my humble opinion, the only time you should pass up an offer like that is to work on your own startup. after all did you not apply, and interview, and compete fo, and WANT the job? i do…

I got an offer much like this (though located in SF, not Palo Alto). I took it, because my only other offer at the time was for roughly half the salary.

I ended up leaving after what was considered a surprisingly short time because I didn't particularly like living in the area. There are other aspects to life than having a famous employer.

That said, I'm with you that it's an attractive opportunity. But founding a company of your own is just one of many reasons to pass. Personally, I value telecommuting.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#127

Post by mcantelon »

kafkaesque wrote: post #56
Domenic_S wrote: post #24

I'm starting a new policy of not reading posts like this unless they say who the offending company is.

I once created a throwaway account here to post about a company's bad practices. I named the company, as well. It was immediately removed from this site. I'm actually from Vancouver, so I would love to know the name of the company. The OP's old employer: 1. Has one (big) claim to fame 2. Located in Vancouver 3. Has a product "dealing with large amounts of money from customers’ bank accounts" But (3) might not be part…

Yeah, I'm from Vancouver and curious as well.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#128

Post by jmgtan »

vadman wrote: post #116
jmgtan wrote: post #21

I encountered the same criticism (not doing overtime) when I was working for a Japanese company even though I'm the only one who is doing 5 projects at the same time and all ahead of schedule with no major issues. I was actually passed over for a promotion because of it. This post brings back bad memories :)

Could you elaborate a bit? I know the Japanese generally work long hours, and would love to hear an eyewitness' account of how things are done there and how you were dealing with the status quo (i.e. what you told your bosses, did you experience peer pressure).

Well we normally have a time in (9am) and this is usually enforced via a fingerprint scanner and a physical attendance check by one of the admin person. There are 3 checks a day: morning, lunch, and 3pm tea break. Lunch break strictly starts at 11:45am until 12:45pm and tea break starts at 3:30pm until 3:45pm, any tardiness even 1 minute late would be reprimanded by one of the senior managers. We work until 6pm, well that was the plan, but for the most part everybody stays an hour late, but the Japanese folks in the company usually stays in until 11pm. I know this for a fact because one time I came back in the office around 10pm and everybody (Japanese) was still there (we're not allowed to access the servers remotely, any critical issues should be addressed from the office).

For the most part there's no peer pressure from my colleagues (both Japanese and non-Japanese), but the pressure comes from the senior management. My probation period was extended because of me leaving on time everyday, even though all of my tasks are completed.

I left the company for a different reason though. I applied for my honeymoon leave and got rejected twice.

(This little story is by no means a representation of all Japanese companies or all Japanese, just a retelling of my experience working for a Japanese company)

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#129

Post by jayhuang »

kafkaesque wrote: post #56
Domenic_S wrote: post #24

I'm starting a new policy of not reading posts like this unless they say who the offending company is.

I once created a throwaway account here to post about a company's bad practices. I named the company, as well. It was immediately removed from this site. I'm actually from Vancouver, so I would love to know the name of the company. The OP's old employer: 1. Has one (big) claim to fame 2. Located in Vancouver 3. Has a product "dealing with large amounts of money from customers’ bank accounts" But (3) might not be part…

I'm very hesitant to post the name of the company because most of my experience has to do with the PM, and not the company as a whole. Although I do have some issues with how this company is run in particular, I do not want to misguide people into thinking that working at this company will be an absolute nightmare.

I have seen different dynamics on other teams within the company, but it's also not the complete picture as I am not part of those teams.

Either way, (3) is a new product, essentially a startup on it's own. There are many other such projects within the company.

It is also not a game development company.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#130

Post by showsover »

eru wrote: post #110
throwmeaway2525 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's a sure-fire way to know, but you can ask upfront (even in the initial communications by email or phone) if it's a new position, or a "backfill." And during the phone or in-person interview you can ask questions about team dynamics, like who you report to and are working with, how long the interviewer has been working there and how they like it, etc., to try to get a sense for how things work. An…

Abouth the `backfill': you can also ask about length of average stay at the company.

You can, but there's no way of finding out if it's true until you're there.
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