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Starship Troopers: one of the most misunderstood movies ever

theatlantic.com

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Re: Starship Troopers: one of the most misunderstood movies ever

#81

Post by jlgreco »

ktd wrote: post #51

This movie isn't misunderstood or clever at all. It was originally exactly as dumb as people think it is (working title: "Bug Hunt On Outpost Nine), but the studio realized they could get the license to Starship Troopers for free. Verhoeven didn't even read Starship Troopers-- he skimmed a few chapters, decided it was depressing and that Heinlein was a fascist, and made the movie a parody of the book, and a lazy paro…

I've read the book, and seen the movie. Let me tell you, I can't say that anything more than a skimming of that book is necessary. It's about as one dimensional as sci-fi gets. Worse even than Scott Cards work, and I don't say that lightly. Both Enders Game and Starship Troopers replace that tedious work of actually figuring out what sort of character development you want to be in your story with "young naive guy matures as he learns the value of war."

The movie, for all of its self-aware cheese, has much more to offer.

Re: Starship Troopers: one of the most misunderstood movies ever

#83

Post by e40 »

maaku wrote: post #70
rahoulb wrote: post #62

I don't get why people wouldn't see it. At the beginning it has a speech about the failure of democracy, how violence is the only legitimate force in the universe. Government by an elite, with restricted rights for civilians (want children? become a citizen), a propaganda network, a perpetual state of war; including belittling the enemy ("I find the idea of a bug that thinks offensive") and belittling anyone who want…

> What it doesn't have is any major character questioning the state that they are living under - but then looking around today, sometimes that seems pretty accurate as well. That's the "problem" - the film assumed the viewer had enough brain to see the satire instead of spelling it out. Apparently that wasn't true of most reviewers at the time. (I saw it when it came out and loved it. Much more than the book which wa…

I saw it when it came out and loved it. Much more than the book which was depressingly fascist apologetic.

Maybe people were projecting the book onto the movie?

Re: Starship Troopers: one of the most misunderstood movies ever

#84

Post by jlgreco »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #68

Okay, so a movie about all-out war for survival against genocidal aliens is supposed to be a good setting for an anti -war story? No wonder so many missed the satire.

Have you seen the movie? Did you see Neil Patrick Harris's outfit in the movie? You would have to be clinically braindead to not pick up on the satire.

Re: Starship Troopers: one of the most misunderstood movies ever

#86

Post by PhasmaFelis »

defen wrote: post #46
jholman wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starship Troopers has the heroes wearing Nazi uniforms, and it has a scene from in-fiction television, "teaching" children that killing terrestrial insects is what they should do to assist with the war on the bugs. I don't remember much of Robocop, but how much more satirical can you get than that?

Here is an in-movie ad for a product that exists in the Robocop universe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmSSVt7Mfkk

That's not much of a satire, given that the Nuclear War card game has been around since 1965. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_War_(card_game)

Re: Starship Troopers: one of the most misunderstood movies ever

#87

Post by PhasmaFelis »

hindsightbias wrote: post #71
pinaceae wrote: post #15

are Americans that daft? seriously, how can one not see this movie for what it is? feels like a giant whoosh.

This is a country that took the original Red Dawn as a serious drama. Nicaraguans invading the Rockies. There's nothing too ridiculous a good portion won't buy.

Red Dawn was a serious drama. It was also pretty ridiculous. Stuff isn't always black-and-white.

Seriously, there's plenty of reasons not to like Red Dawn, but I get tired of people talking like it's just a bunch of rah-rah America-wins jingoism. You may have forgotten that the movie ends with most of the protagonists dead and no end to the war in sight.

Re: Starship Troopers: one of the most misunderstood movies ever

#88

Post by beloch »

Odds are that, if you read the book first, you'll probably hate the movie. They really are totally different. Personally, I don't believe fidelity to the source is necessary for an adaptation to be successful. Plenty of films have been made that are slaves to the source and are terrible as a result! Great films are often made from bad books, so why can't great films just be different from the great books they're based on?

I do think there's room for a more faithful adaptation of the book, but that doesn't change the fact that Verhoeven's film is brilliant and hilarious. If you go in expecting it to be faithful to the book (or you're a bit of a hawk yourself to begin with), I can see why you might interpret it as a serious, but bad flick. Great films aren't always intended for all audiences however!

If Verhoeven can be faulted, it's for making "Hollow Man". Now that flick sucked!

Re: Starship Troopers: one of the most misunderstood movies ever

#89

Post by DanBC »

psbp wrote: post #13
richforrester wrote: post #4

After reading this, watch Robocop again. Same director, same critique on society. Really adds another layer to it.

Robocop is even more over the top. One of the first scenes in Robocop is a guy being eviscerated with bullets in a board room meeting and one of the businessmen says "That's life in the big city!". It's just dripping with satire.

That scene originally lasted much longer. The robot spends ages shooting the guy. So long that it becomes ridiculous, comical.

Censors didn't like that scene, and they insisted it was cut down, with a shorter amount of time for shooting.

The effect is to turn something almost funny into something chilling and horrific.

Having the ED 209 be unable to tackle stairs is another example of the robot failing.

Re: Starship Troopers: one of the most misunderstood movies ever

#90

Post by justin66 »

BjoernKW wrote: post #85

I don't get it. Very much at the beginning of the movie a paraplegic army recruiter proudly proclaims: "Mobile infantry made me the man I am today." How can anyone take that at face value?

As satire the brilliant part about that, and a few of the other really shocking things like the drill sergeant beating up a new recruit to establish himself as head of the pack, or the whipping, is that it's lifted fairly directly from the book.

A subset of the fans of the book get mad because the violence and fascism seemed so much cooler in their heads. Other fans recognize that Heinlein's books were to some degree experimental (it's science fiction!) and enjoy the joke. I've always been surprised at how many people who knew the book didn't get it, but that's life.

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