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A culture of beer and overtime

jayhuang.org

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Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#91

Post by jaf656s »

weixiyen wrote: post #89

At one of my first jobs, I resigned after about a year because I found a job that offered 2x as much in terms of salary. Director: "How much is the new place offering? We can match." I told him the number. Immediately his tone changed, and said I should take the other offer. I wanted to give a 2 week notice, which I thought was the norm, but he asked me to leave immediately and use up my remaining days as vacation da…

You were treated fairly. Bluntly but fairly.

When you turn in your resignation, your notice is just an offer of a grace period. They are not obligated to take you up on your offer.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#92

Post by nostrademons »

laughfactory wrote: post #72

Dude, I feel ya. And thanks for sharing. I'm not (yet) a developer (though that is my long game), but I have run into similar situations in data science. I had an idiot boss (boss of my immediate boss) who sat around all day with his feet on his desk, staring off into space, but demanded that we all work 60-ish hours a week. And this was at a bank, where the standard was 40 and they made a lot of noise about their su…

I worked a bit once with the founders of a tech company that's long since gone under. They would say things like "We're going to push ourselves harder than we've ever pushed ourselves!" or "We've got to be working faster!" I ended up impressing them by being able to keep up with their insane pace, and then declining to join their company.

I think that statements like these are things that inexperienced, starry-eyed founders say because they don't realize how stupid it makes them seem. It's the employee equivalent of saying "We have no competition!" or "When we build it, customers will come!" to investors. Anyone who's observed how things actually play out knows that it doesn't work like that, but it seems plausible to first-time founders who aren't particularly grounded in reality.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#93

Post by nostrademons »

coffeemug wrote: post #48
bigiain wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, or at least food for thought: How are you instilling that attitude in your company? How big would your company need to grow before misguided middle management might be appointed who _does_ think this is an appropriate management technique, resulting in this happening on your watch with you later described as a "detached executive"? Having stuff like this "never even occur to you" leaves you in the p…

This is a good point. I've never managed more than 15 people so I can only speculate, but it seems that the proverbial fish rots from the head (I'm sure I'll learn many painful lessons when it's time to grow). The startup described by the OP is smaller than our company, and they already have this problem. If we were large enough to need middle management, I would be absolutely paranoid about hiring good people that u…

I think it's really important for startups to promote their first managers from within, and to do so based on character & social skills rather than technical skills. The former is what gives you an opportunity to observe the latter. From what I've heard, Google's culture took a severe dip from 2005-2007 because they hired a bunch of outside managers, and to some extent the problem self-corrected but not before driving away some really talented engineers.

Also, I would advise against not having 1:1s with your direct reports' reports. To a new manager, it can feel like you're undermining them and don't trust them, and to an individual contributor it can make it very confusing who they should bring ideas or concerns to.

Instead, hold informal lunches with a subset of individual contributors without the manager present. This is a great way to get them to know & trust you as a leader, and you can still gauge the tone of their happiness from how they react at the lunch. You also sometimes become aware of whole-company cultural or organizational problems this way, things that really need a founder/CEO's intervention to get fixed. And if you pull the subset from across different teams, it also serves as a way for people from across different teams to get to know each other and strengthens social ties between different areas of the company.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#94

Post by teebrz »

jaf656s wrote: post #91
weixiyen wrote: post #89

At one of my first jobs, I resigned after about a year because I found a job that offered 2x as much in terms of salary. Director: "How much is the new place offering? We can match." I told him the number. Immediately his tone changed, and said I should take the other offer. I wanted to give a 2 week notice, which I thought was the norm, but he asked me to leave immediately and use up my remaining days as vacation da…

You were treated fairly. Bluntly but fairly. When you turn in your resignation, your notice is just an offer of a grace period. They are not obligated to take you up on your offer.

To be clear, the specific part you mention is fair...but I don't think anyone would object to that.

The part where it seems somewhat unfair is where the director asked weixiyen to give up pay they were entitled to.

It's fair enough to ask for a favor ("hey, do you mind using up your vacay days before you leave?"), but you should make clear that it is a favor and what it entails - it sounds like that may not have done in this instance.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#95

Post by khuey »

gbog wrote: post #88
rfnslyr wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to be your friend/coworker so badly. I hate management praying on the modest and kind. At my old job we had a really shy intern and he took all the shit that came his way and it was really sad to see.

> praying Do you mean preying, I dare ask?

Yes, he does.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#97

Post by yummyfajitas »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #57
fragsworth wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Cultural fit" isn't bullshit, it's just a euphemism for how reasonable someone's personality is. It's easier to say "I don't think they'll fit our culture" instead of saying "their personality sucks"

Agree with this completely. Cultural fit is (imo) the most important hiring criteria (way way more important than experience with the language). Employees are going to be part of your team for at least two years. If your team can't stand them then that's going to be painful. However, "Cultural Fit" used as an excuse to prevent team diversity is bullshit. Every study done on it has proven that diversity increases team…

Every study done on it has proven that diversity increases team productivity.

There is a major file drawer effect here. Writing a study proving the opposite is a career limiting move.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#98

Post by yummyfajitas »

weixiyen wrote: post #89

At one of my first jobs, I resigned after about a year because I found a job that offered 2x as much in terms of salary. Director: "How much is the new place offering? We can match." I told him the number. Immediately his tone changed, and said I should take the other offer. I wanted to give a 2 week notice, which I thought was the norm, but he asked me to leave immediately and use up my remaining days as vacation da…

How do they save money? If you use your 2 weeks of vacation, they send you a check for 2 weeks pay at the end. The exact same thing would happen if you cashed out your vacation days, albeit with slightly different paperwork.

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#99

Post by tempestn »

Was anyone else reminded of this? http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/magazine/dave-eggers-ficti...

"Denise’s smile was pained. “But then there’s your absence at most of the weekend and evening events, all of which are of course totally optional, and your corresponding PartiRank, which is surprisingly low for a newbie."

"Optional" beer party anyone?

Re: A culture of beer and overtime

#100

Post by jayhuang »

patio11 wrote: post #5

n.b. It was time to leave, and the HR lady came to me and said I would have to sign a release letter and send it back within 2 work days (the following Monday was a holiday), otherwise I would not get any of the remaining pay I'm not familiar with the law in Canada, but I rather suspect that it's similar to America, so a bit of advice for the young and impressionable: virtually no threat to not pay an employee wages…

Hi Patrick,

Thanks for the tip. I always find your comments very helpful.

This was definitely a huge learning experience for me; probably better now than 15~20 years down the road. I too, was quite sure they would still have to pay me even if I didn't sign. I just wanted everything to be done with and never have to deal with them again. I've had to sue before, but I try to avoid it if at all possible.

Funny thing is there are 2 other points in the release:

Releases and forever discharges the company, its officers, directors, shareholders, etc etc etc...from suits, claims, demands, liabilities, etc, etc, etc.

Agrees not to disclose the terms of this Release to anyone other than the Contractor's professional advisors (well I consider HN my professional advisor so I guess I'm in the clear)

seems quite questionable to me.

Regardless, I will keep your advice in mind. The next time something like this occurs (hopefully never), I will be better equipped to deal with it!

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