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Remote

robertgreiner.com

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Re: Remote

#41

Post by falcolas »

scott_s wrote: post #38

Funny, I just got off the phone with someone I work remotely with. We communicate asynchronously regularly. And that's great. But sometimes there's no substitute for a 10 minute phone call to discuss a technical topic. The amount of time it takes for two parties to draft and write responses to technical points can be quite high, and the back-and-forth required to correct misunderstandings can take several round-trips…

I personally enjoy a scheduled meeting via some video client (we use Google hangouts). That way you can be prepared to discuss topics, and it's not an interruption of anybody's work.

Re: Remote

#42

Post by scott_s »

falcolas wrote: post #41
scott_s wrote: post #38

Funny, I just got off the phone with someone I work remotely with. We communicate asynchronously regularly. And that's great. But sometimes there's no substitute for a 10 minute phone call to discuss a technical topic. The amount of time it takes for two parties to draft and write responses to technical points can be quite high, and the back-and-forth required to correct misunderstandings can take several round-trips…

I personally enjoy a scheduled meeting via some video client (we use Google hangouts). That way you can be prepared to discuss topics, and it's not an interruption of anybody's work.

We do both, as needed. In this instance, I sent a detailed email this morning. He sent a detailed response in the afternoon, with an invitation to ping him to chat further about one of the topics. A few hours later, I did, and five minutes after that, he called. The emails did the job of all of the background information - facts and basic interpretation, explanation of the problem and our options. The phone call was to agree on how we should proceed.

Re: Remote

#43

Post by baddox »

scott_s wrote: post #38

Funny, I just got off the phone with someone I work remotely with. We communicate asynchronously regularly. And that's great. But sometimes there's no substitute for a 10 minute phone call to discuss a technical topic. The amount of time it takes for two parties to draft and write responses to technical points can be quite high, and the back-and-forth required to correct misunderstandings can take several round-trips…

Funny, the last time I suggested that in-person (or at least low-friction real-time audio and/or video) communication is extremely beneficial if not crucial to software teams, especially smaller startups iterating quickly, I was lambasted. One great comment I remember distinctly was that if my job required me to regularly ask another programmer something about a system they had worked on, that means the system wasn't sufficiently documented.

Re: Remote

#44

Post by scott_s »

baddox wrote: post #43
scott_s wrote: post #38

Funny, I just got off the phone with someone I work remotely with. We communicate asynchronously regularly. And that's great. But sometimes there's no substitute for a 10 minute phone call to discuss a technical topic. The amount of time it takes for two parties to draft and write responses to technical points can be quite high, and the back-and-forth required to correct misunderstandings can take several round-trips…

Funny, the last time I suggested that in-person (or at least low-friction real-time audio and/or video) communication is extremely beneficial if not crucial to software teams, especially smaller startups iterating quickly, I was lambasted. One great comment I remember distinctly was that if my job required me to regularly ask another programmer something about a system they had worked on, that means the system wasn't…

That certainly wasn't by me. HN is legion, for it is many.

Re: Remote

#45

Post by trustfundbaby »

joshyeager wrote: post #39
trustfundbaby wrote: post #35

The biggest challenge for me is that I'm starting to realize that people don't really get asynchronous communication as much as I thought they would. Putting on your headphones at the office and trying to get work done is seen as antisocial and hostile (especially daring to direct people to try to get you on im or email), and you find yourself shut out of critical decision points meetings because people will say "we…

Here is an alternate way to interpret the scenario in your second paragraph: Putting on your headphones at the office and trying to get work done is seen as a signal that you need to concentrate. You find yourself shut out of critical decision points meetings because people needed to make a decision but assumed you were deep in thought and couldn't take an interruption. Balancing these two needs is hard.

You find yourself shut out of critical decision points meetings because people needed to make a decision but assumed you were deep in thought and couldn't take an interruption

Still sounds like a dick move to me, if the office were on fire and you were taking a nap in the breakroom would people leave you to sleep while they got out to save themselves? probably not.

Thats, an extreme example but if you follow it, you can see that the keypoint here is "critical decision", if you're making decisions without somebody that should be involved in the process, because you're so damned polite that you didn't want to bother them, I'd hazard that you're not really polite at all, you're just being passive aggressive, but I'm a bit of a cynic ;)

Re: Remote

#46

Post by trustfundbaby »

scott_s wrote: post #37
trustfundbaby wrote: post #35

The biggest challenge for me is that I'm starting to realize that people don't really get asynchronous communication as much as I thought they would. Putting on your headphones at the office and trying to get work done is seen as antisocial and hostile (especially daring to direct people to try to get you on im or email), and you find yourself shut out of critical decision points meetings because people will say "we…

(what they're really saying is "fuck you, thats what you get for isolating yourself") I think that's not a charitable interpretation. Two alternative explanations, which are not mutually exclusive: 1. Most people don't like confrontation or rejection; they find it awkward and uncomfortable, even if it's done politely. After interrupting you a few times, they find that they are generally rebuffed, so they stop interru…

I think that's not a charitable interpretation

Of course its not, but does what I described happen in corporate America everyday? you bet your ass it does.

I like your other points better too, but I don't think it particularly invalidates the option I presented either.

Re: Remote

#47

Post by blisterpeanuts »

nthj wrote: post #33
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #26

My full time job in technology morphed into work-from-home after about eighteen months. It happened for two reasons: #1, they knew me and trusted me to get the work done, and #2, I was literally the last person on my team still on site. My team's spread all over the world at this point. I kept going to the office for a while, then realized that, aside from having three monitors on my desk, there was no advantage for…

A bit of a tangent, but am I the only one who finds texts unacceptable in professional situations? I never reply to a text from a client; if it's important, I'll reply to the text FROM an email, but never as a text. If it happens more than once or twice I explain that I don't receive text message notifications on my phone (which is true; I can see them passively but they do not "ping" me), and that to ensure a timely…

texts (actually, instant messages) are handy for asking simple yes/no types of questions. "What's the server?" "" "Thanks!" "np"

faster than email, and there wasn't a need for a paper trail, more like a tap on the shoulder kind of conversation.

Re: Remote

#48

Post by Bulkington »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #26

My full time job in technology morphed into work-from-home after about eighteen months. It happened for two reasons: #1, they knew me and trusted me to get the work done, and #2, I was literally the last person on my team still on site. My team's spread all over the world at this point. I kept going to the office for a while, then realized that, aside from having three monitors on my desk, there was no advantage for…

Agree with most ofmyour points, and I even find that my boss hectors me much less now after hours than he did before I went remote(and his non-stop office interruptions were the reason I moved off-site, so big win there).

But I think I'm much less efficient, focused. Personal flaw, probably. But when at the office I never wasted a second, and grew to resent boss interrupting to come watch latest Yahoo Sports video. I wanted to get the heck out. Now I'm too inclined to piddle. Rather than stair-stepping up 5 flights to pace, I'll rake leaves then fix the kids a snack, then I've got to work after normal hours to catch up.

Also, my study used to be a refuge. Now it's where I work.

But I do enjoy nice days when I can work from the boat and no one's the wiser.

Re: Remote

#49

Post by 001sky »

scott_s wrote: post #37
trustfundbaby wrote: post #35

The biggest challenge for me is that I'm starting to realize that people don't really get asynchronous communication as much as I thought they would. Putting on your headphones at the office and trying to get work done is seen as antisocial and hostile (especially daring to direct people to try to get you on im or email), and you find yourself shut out of critical decision points meetings because people will say "we…

(what they're really saying is "fuck you, thats what you get for isolating yourself") I think that's not a charitable interpretation. Two alternative explanations, which are not mutually exclusive: 1. Most people don't like confrontation or rejection; they find it awkward and uncomfortable, even if it's done politely. After interrupting you a few times, they find that they are generally rebuffed, so they stop interru…

Theres a term for that! I think its called passive agression. Passive agression and active accomodation (ie, being nice) shouldn't be confused though. The purpose of course, for the adversary, is to disguise the former as the latter to gain a tactical advantage. While the laguage used by the parent was (somewhat) blunt, I don't think the pheonomenan he is describing is an empirical anomaly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive-aggressive_behavior

Re: Remote

#50

Post by nl »

nthj wrote: post #33
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #26

My full time job in technology morphed into work-from-home after about eighteen months. It happened for two reasons: #1, they knew me and trusted me to get the work done, and #2, I was literally the last person on my team still on site. My team's spread all over the world at this point. I kept going to the office for a while, then realized that, aside from having three monitors on my desk, there was no advantage for…

A bit of a tangent, but am I the only one who finds texts unacceptable in professional situations? I never reply to a text from a client; if it's important, I'll reply to the text FROM an email, but never as a text. If it happens more than once or twice I explain that I don't receive text message notifications on my phone (which is true; I can see them passively but they do not "ping" me), and that to ensure a timely…

This means (a) all expectations of me are in one place (my inbox) and (b) I don't have to filter work from my free time.

Isn't this a tools problem (ie, at your end)?

I certainly separate my work phone number from my personal one (but that's pretty easy to do these days).

I've never found the SMS vs Email location thing to bother me, but if it does think there are plenty of phone apps that combine them. From memory HTC has one that isn't terrible, and Dias.im[1] looks nice.

What do you do about other message sources though? IM, etc?

I've always considered keeping my work organised something I'm responsible for, and I'd never try to make other work one way or another to fit my tools.

(Disclaimer: I work remotely)

[1] http://www.cultofandroid.com/42101/disa-im-unified-messaging...

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