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Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

theguardian.com

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Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because patriarchy is the slaving morality of the status quo? You've never thought that the fact these little tests exists is because the level of male domination in social discourse is so high that it causes reactions such as yours when it is challenged?

I don't know what you mean by "slaving morality". Is that a new term for "master morality", or a typo?

You used the phrase, but perhaps if you want to not be a smartass, let's be clear about this in a way you haven't in the previous posts:

Male-dominated thinking is so prevalent in society that it is second nature. As a general rule, female leads are fewer than male leads, male roles have more significance than female roles in anything that's not romance and comedies, and there are significant differences in that which go beyond a mere reflection of society or properly-reasoned discrimination in the current world.

Thus, a couple of Swedes think it would be a good idea to let people know that this goes on, a lot, without any pretention of doing much more than pointing it out.

Replace "woman" with "racial minority", or "poor", and it still makes sense, although the points of contention are different. Minorities are underrepresented in most movies (that is, they are proportionally less prevalent than even reality in the roles they cast), or in the case of, for example, black people, are cast into very clearly-defined stereotypes which do not necessarily match reality, and worse, give no possibility to the fact that black people can be anything else other than a stereotype.

Keeping with the example of black in movies, although this has been changing, such changes can also happen in the unnatural role where a minority is purposefully put into a role that breaks stereotypes. That may be fine, but there is a broad spectrum of character diversity between stereotype roles and main characters put in place to "make a point" about diversity.

Even then, positions of patriarchy are still so embedded that the way in which minorities are represented, even with the intention of breaking stereotypes, can be flawed.

That is what this test is about, with regards to gender equality, and I fail to see anything surprising about it.

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#52
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The test has had almost 30 years to develop The general problem that I see in both the test and the problem it's designed to solve is this mental shortcut of an either/or grouping. Male/female, pass/fail. But if it helps some people start dialogue then that's wonderful, at the same time I think the intersectionalist feminists deserve some positive attention for searching out new ways to get the conversations going.

> at the same time I think the intersectionalist feminists deserve some positive attention for searching out new ways to get the conversations going. I'm confused that you say this, but do not actually link any such ways. I'd personally be happy to give them some positive attention, but feminism isn't something I spend much time on so I don't know the latest stuff going on.

That's fair, I've just had positive personal experiences with the intersectionalists IRL. As a guy, I've felt the conversations have been less adversarial and more productive.

I can say it's a more nuanced critique of privilege then say radical feminism, but whether my positive experiences are rooted in a better theory or just in the people attracted to it I don't really know.

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#53
post #9

Having seen both the Swedish and American versions of The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo I have to say Sweden is a bit ahead when it comes to gender representation, so they're doing something right somewhere. On the other hand, Harry Potter was written by a self-proclaimed feminist and has a very empowering female in Hermione Granger, if that series fails the Bechdel Test then I'm left wondering how many other false-pos…

It throws a lot of false positive and false negatives; it's not actually useful for any analysis involving rigor. Never use it to make a final judgement call. But it can serve as a smoke test. Harry Potter, for instance, does have a fairly empowering female in Hermione, but the series itself has a lot of problems, not all of them feminist in nature. Not sure how much spoilering or detail I really ought to go into it…

> It throws a lot of false positive and false negatives; it's not actually useful for any analysis involving rigor.

If a tool carries a lot of weight, has little accuracy and is only used against one's opponents - that tool has a lot in common with a bludgeon.

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what you mean by "slaving morality". Is that a new term for "master morality", or a typo?

You used the phrase, but perhaps if you want to not be a smartass, let's be clear about this in a way you haven't in the previous posts: Male-dominated thinking is so prevalent in society that it is second nature. As a general rule, female leads are fewer than male leads, male roles have more significance than female roles in anything that's not romance and comedies, and there are significant differences in that whic…

You don't even understand what slave morality is. Why do you respond to things you don't understand? The fact that you think what you just wrote is in contradiction to my position proves it. Idiot

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's okay, I don't expect chronically stupid people to recognise their betters.

Oh my god it's an actual flame war on HN this is AWESOME. Ahem. I'm sorry you weren't able to recognize me as your better. I hope your chronic stupidity is duly cured someday. Did I do it right?

I thought I wasn't "worth your time", and yet you're still talking to me. Not very bright, are you?

Re: Swedish cinemas take aim at gender bias with Bechdel test rating

#56
post #5
post #3

Swedes evidently think "too much of a good thing can be wonderful": they have had a Minister of Gender Equality since the 50's ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_for_Gender_Equality_(S... ) and there are efforts to introduce a gender-neutral pronoun ( http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/04/hen_s... , although this has been tried in English, too). In the Global Gender Gap Report 2012, Sweden is na…

a recent movie that's similar is Gravity . It doesn't even pass the reverse test since there are so few characters.

It's a one sided test so obviously biased. Like rolling a bunch of dice, then pointing at all the 5-6s and saying "too high!"
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