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Inputs.io hacked – 4100 BTC stolen

inputs.io

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Re: Inputs.io hacked – 4100 BTC stolen

#111

Post by nyarlathotep »

JeremyBanks wrote: post #49
RyanZAG wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can certainly cash it out using a number of bitcoin to currency services. So the hacker has done the equivalent of stealing $1mil out of a bank, except a bank is very easy to trace while stealing BTC means the thief is home free. https://www.bitcoin.de/en?cr=1 https://www.bitstamp.net/ https://btc-e.com/ https://www.bitfinex.com/ https://localbitcoins.com/

BitCoins are difficult to anonymize. If you take your stolen coins directly to an exchange, the exchange would be able to identify you if law enforcement asked.

Well, you could use a site like this: https://localbitcoins.com/ but then again doing hundreds of these cash transactions in person seems like it would be stressful.

Re: Inputs.io hacked – 4100 BTC stolen

#112

Post by aianus »

grey-area wrote: post #110
qnr wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, Bitcoin can be confiscated by the government Not if you specifically want to prevent this. A bitcoin private key is 256-bit ECDSA, which provides 128 bits of security. If you can remember a 10 word randomly generated diceware phrase[1], you can securely store bitcoins in your brain. [1] calculating the private key as a SHA256(phrase) for example

A $5 wrench or a jail cell will deal with your encryption.

I don't think the US is at the point where they torture citizens for private keys. And they'd only be able to use jail as leverage by offering a reduced sentence. Even then, you might refuse if, for example, you'd rather stay in prison and leave the money to your family.

Re: Inputs.io hacked – 4100 BTC stolen

#113

Post by kybernetikos »

steveklabnik wrote: post #28
biff wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting thought. Could there be "shunned" Bitcoins where, if they held certain blacklisted wallets in their history, businesses and users would choose not to accept them? One could imagine people still choosing to trade in these Bitcoins, but that such a penalty would forevermore reduce their value next to "unshunned" coins. Could legit businesses and people using Bitcoin collectively reduce the value of stolen B…

If you think that a pile of anonymous people on the internet are going to respect a 'stolen' flag with no real downsides, I've got a bridge to sell you... Also, this is ignoring the entire problem of 'who decides what stolen means in a totally decentralized protocol?' That's non-trivial in and of itself.

Law enforcement could enflict some real downsides if bitcoins were considered stolen goods. Stolen goods can be seized when discovered by police, even if their current owner acquired them legitimately.

Re: Inputs.io hacked – 4100 BTC stolen

#114

Post by hvidgaard »

ninjin wrote: post #68
superuser2 wrote: post #45

Is there anything to stop the community from creating a database of known-stolen Bitcoins which participants can choose to reject? I guess all it takes is one non-participating exchange, but it seems like you could make it much less convenient to cash out.

Well, one attack that I can come up with immediately is to just create a new wallet, transfer the bitcoins from the flagged wallet, then cash out from the new wallet. Your obvious retort would then be "Aha! But how about we just track any transactions from the flagged wallet and flag those wallets too!", sure, but then you open up for an alternative attack where you could get your wallet flagged and then send a minim…

You can track the individual transactions. So if I have some tainted coins and I really do not like you. I know your main wallet and transfer 1$ worth of tainted coins to you. You can just transfer the tainted coins out of the wallet and that is it - the rest of the coins in your wallet are perfectly fine.

That said, tainting is not a path we want to go down. The potential for abuse is enormous, and rendering more and more coins useless.

Re: Inputs.io hacked – 4100 BTC stolen

#115

Post by hvidgaard »

bdcravens wrote: post #31
Taylorious wrote: post #30

So I have seen several of these stories pop up and I am still kind of confused by them. Are these hackers actually getting "real" money at some point? Are they able to cash out these bitcoins to USD or something else in a reasonable time-frame, or do they simply have a large amount of "fake" money that they can use for very specific goods and services?

They're likely moving the Bitcoins to their own cryptowallet. At that point they could spend on sources that accept Bitcoin for payment (Silk Road and the like, Reddit Gold, the small but growing set of real-world places that take Bitcoin, etc) or could transfer to an exchange to cash out. tl;dr - both.

Problem is that the coins can be traced, so they need to spend them anonymously.

Re: Inputs.io hacked – 4100 BTC stolen

#117

Post by [deleted] »

mrb wrote: post #70
Helianthus wrote: post #23

I don't know what you expected, Bitcoin enthusiasts. You bought into a system where coins could be permanently lost because you forgot a password. You bought into a system where the government cheerfully gained control of a large share of the market by simple confiscation. You have recreated money . But you aren't even good at it! You still think that simple cryptography will excuse you from the fact that you're gree…

You fail to point out that cash has all the same drawbacks: You can permanently lose cash if destroyed in a fire. Your cash or bank account can be confiscated easily by the government. Etc. Of course, unlike cash, Bitcoin has advantages because it offers the option to prevent these losses: you can back up a Bitcoin wallet. You can avoid government confiscation (password-protected wallet). Etc.

[deleted]

Re: Inputs.io hacked – 4100 BTC stolen

#118

Post by MichaelGG »

nyarlathotep wrote: post #111
JeremyBanks wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BitCoins are difficult to anonymize. If you take your stolen coins directly to an exchange, the exchange would be able to identify you if law enforcement asked.

Well, you could use a site like this: https://localbitcoins.com/ but then again doing hundreds of these cash transactions in person seems like it would be stressful.

Seems to me that the most useful point of the LocalBitcoins service is to find traders willing to exchange via postal service. Face-to-face interaction seems like a bad move, especially since the money you're sending could be tracked to a "theft" and the service or trader might decide to snoop on you. And again, as the criminal complaint against Nod showed, using USPS is only safe if you act with sufficient randomness and change profiles. Otherwise they may detect a large pattern you generate.

It's also safer because it seems the government isn't likely to setup a major investigation for the case of BTC "theft".

(I say "theft" because it is possible, but unlikely, that the owner of the wallet transferred the money to someone intentionally, to pay them or something.)

Re: Inputs.io hacked – 4100 BTC stolen

#119

Post by baq »

Helianthus wrote: post #55
asciimo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you referring to the 144,000 BTC confiscated in the Silk Road bust? There are almost 12,000,000 BTC in circulation. The Silk Road share accounts for about 1.2% Compare that with any government currency that is 100% government-controlled. It's easy to permanently lose cash, too.

Yeah, it's easy to lose cash if you're on Wall Street, but no one lauds that. You're stuck in a place where you're trying to differentiate yourself from Wall Street and you are exactly like Wall Street. And then you compare the total BTC in circulation and its equivalence in USD... and... What the fuck do you think you're doing? Do you think you're toying with trillions of dollars? The banking machine is ignoring you…

i guess the point is that money on wall street only changes hands. BTC are permanently destroyed.

Re: Inputs.io hacked – 4100 BTC stolen

#120

Post by psionski »

Helianthus wrote: post #23

I don't know what you expected, Bitcoin enthusiasts. You bought into a system where coins could be permanently lost because you forgot a password. You bought into a system where the government cheerfully gained control of a large share of the market by simple confiscation. You have recreated money . But you aren't even good at it! You still think that simple cryptography will excuse you from the fact that you're gree…

Nobody is forcing you to use it OR help its development. Why do you even care?
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