Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag • Hacker News Board

Re: Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag

#71

Post by 001sky » Thu, Nov 07, 2013, 1:27 AM UTC

oijaf888 wrote: post #54

revelation wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the point. An extreme event will be something that puts you out of work for at least a month, and for many people, they will no longer have a job after not working for a month. Since their insurance is coupled in intricate ways with their job, it ends when they need it most.

Right but that has no bearing on if the concept of insurance is a scam or not. Sure, health insurance in this country is tied to a job due to WW2 wage controls but that doesn't invalidate the entire concept of insurance.

Its a con, not a scam. If that matters. But then again, a con is but a technique to scam someone. So, by this logic...

Re: Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag

#72

Post by fit2rule » Thu, Nov 07, 2013, 7:13 AM UTC

oijaf888 wrote: post #56

fit2rule wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health Insurance isn't actually designed in the US to benefit the individual. Its defined to benefit those who sell health insurance. If you can't pay: you die. That is an axiom of the entire insurance industry.

I stopped paying my health insurance once and I didn't die. Perhaps you mean if you don't pay for health insurance you are more likely to declare bankruptcy as a result of an unexpected healthcare issue however to equate declaring bankruptcy with death is a bit extreme imo.

You're healthy, you don't have any life-critical problems at the moment. You don't need insurance.

But when you do need it - if you have an accident, get cancer, or otherwise ill - and you don't have it: well, no medicine for you. Go die in the streets.

And before you say this is an extreme position, no. I have worked with homeless and despondent people in America, on the streets, and time and again encountered people who simply didn't have the money for the treatment they needed, so they were on the streets. Dying of cancer. All over America.

Re: Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag

#73

Post by fit2rule » Thu, Nov 07, 2013, 7:14 AM UTC

oijaf888 wrote: post #54

revelation wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the point. An extreme event will be something that puts you out of work for at least a month, and for many people, they will no longer have a job after not working for a month. Since their insurance is coupled in intricate ways with their job, it ends when they need it most.

Right but that has no bearing on if the concept of insurance is a scam or not. Sure, health insurance in this country is tied to a job due to WW2 wage controls but that doesn't invalidate the entire concept of insurance.

Mafia: Pay us, or else something bad will happen and you will not survive it.

Insurance: Pay us, or else WHEN something bad happens, you will not survive it.

Understand the nature of the con now? Industrialized medicine never has the individuals' best needs in mind.

Re: Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag

#74

Post by nollidge » Fri, Nov 08, 2013, 2:26 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #57

nollidge wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think DanBC is saying that insurance per se is a scam, but that the U.S. health insurance industry is unavoidably scammy. EDIT: Put another way: you're 100% correct that that's what insurance should do and purports to do, but that's not how it actually plays out with American health insurance.

No! I'm very much saying that most insurance (car insurance, home contents insurance, payer-protection insurance, flood protection insurance, etc etc) is rife with scammy practices and awful awful people - the scum of the earth.

Sure, but that's different than saying insurance is by-definition a scam.

Re: Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag

#75

Post by drzaiusapelord » Fri, Nov 08, 2013, 6:01 PM UTC

VLM wrote: post #66

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard response is that she needed disability insurance on top of her medical insurance. So yeah, you need 2 different insurances in case you get a real illness in the US. This is how fucked up it is here. Unfortunately the GOP and conservative democrats killed any "public option" in the ACA so we'll never have anything like the NHS here. Oh, I have this secondary insurance. It also sucks and will cost me a lot…

"Unfortunately the GOP and conservative democrats killed any "public option" in the ACA so we'll never have anything like the NHS here." Hardly a permanent situation. When you have a corrupt enough system, just like a scrambled enough computer, the best bet is to hurry up and reboot the system so you can bring it up clean. After the reboot we'll have sensible insurance. The problem is surviving until after the reboot…

You're much more optimistic than me. I could see, maybe, my grandkids ushering in something like the NHS, but now or in the near future? Where the political discourse is split between being Eisenhower style Republicans (democrats) and some insane fascist theocracy (Republicans/Tea party)? Yeah, this not the formula for progressive politics.

Re: Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag

#76

Post by declan » Sat, Nov 09, 2013, 6:43 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #58

declan wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this were actually true then word would get around quickly and insurance companies would lose business as honest rivals emerge. (Hint: This hasn't happened. Because it's not true.) See, from a cancer patient writing three days ago who had her insurance canceled because of Obamacare: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230452750... "The second element essential to my fight is a United Healthcare PPO…

> then word would get around quickly and insurance companies would lose business as honest rivals emerge. I can never tell if someone actually believes the free market opinion they give, or if they're parodying stuff other people say. People buy insurance by price. Insurers cut price by not paying out.

People buy life insurance based on price. Whether you're alive or dead isn't generally difficult to establish.

People buy other types of insurance based in part on price and in part on reputation. There are plenty of discussions (I've participated in some) about how insurance company X is too difficult to deal with, and insurance company Y is better when your car is totaled, etc.