Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a fair point. There are an array of risks that less (or more) intelligence shifts the balance around on. N.b., I don't really like to frame it as "attacks on democracy". That is (1) hyperbolic and (2) not obviously true. Words must be chosen very carefully in this debate (and it is a debate!) in order to not mislead or scare people away. I would argue that TLA snooping leads to the "Chilling effects" idea, whe…
I'm interested in this distinction. It seems to me fairly self-evident that actions which chill debate or discussion limit political expression and an informed electorate, thereby fundamentally impinging on democracy. Why then distinguish between 'chilling effects' and an attack on democracy?
Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"
361–370 of 420 posts
Re: Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"
#362It's ironic that when the Chinese attack against Google occurred, we thought the Chinese government was the most hostile state actor threat to worry about, but it turned out to be the US and UK government.
China is a much more hostile state actor in how it would use any information it gathers up, especially to a free-enterprise company like Google.
Re: Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"
#363Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some equipment might come from Israel (it's just guessing though), but I do not like your implicit hinting that Israeli developers are somehow less moral than U.S developers (because of "cultural" differences?) - especially since you don't know much about it. You seem to be forgetting which government and agency is at the center of this debacle, don't try to share the blame on other nations or cultures for developing…
He isn't saying Israel is less moral at all. The book mentioned above specifically points out there are a good handful of companies that sell hardware/tech to the US government that have originated in Israel. I think the point being that Israel happens to excel at this type of thing due to the simple fact that they have been surrounded by countries who have wanted to wipe them off the map for a long time. This has ha…
Re: Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"
#364Earlier quoted context omitted.
As much as the UK government would probably love being confused for the US government, at least the visit to the Guardian and detainment of Miranda were both done by the UK. And given how the UK government loves nothing more than to be the lapdog of the US, I have no doubts it was done entirely voluntarily. Eagerly even, as an opportunity to show off just how extra exceedingly loyal minions they are. Frankly, I have…
Except you know, in that case the person actually did have classified documents of an allied nation on a thumbdrive on them. Which you know - is still illegal to have. Though it's funny how the Guardian thoroughly underreported that fact.
It is, however illegal for someone with a clearance to mishandle classified material. "Mishandling" includes "Permitting access to classified material to non-cleared personnel.". If you mishandle classified material you may be reprimanded, have your clearance revoked, be fined, or go to jail for a very long time.
Re: Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"
#365Re: Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"
#366Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thank you for responding in a meaningful way. I appreciate it. > There are ways to make anonymous payments on the net, I can use cash to buy cash-cards in denominations up to $500 that work just like debit cards online, they are even branded with Visa and/or MasterCard. This still puts you at greater risk of exposure than creating a Gmail account through an anonymizing proxy. Prepaid cards can be traced to where they…
This still puts you at greater risk of exposure than creating a Gmail account through an anonymizing proxy. I note that you've specifically gone to the most extreme case of the state looking to track you rather than some other private entity. The NSA/FBI looking at camera footage at the point of purchase for a cash card is just as likely as the NSA de-anonymizing your proxy (well probably less likely given what the N…
PayPal are not a monopoly, by the way. I would not be surprised to see them unseated from their current position in the next few years.
I do have Ghostery installed. I'm glad it exists, and wish more people would use it so that they could see the extent of the tracking that's going on.
> If you think I am specifically talking about Google, you are mistaken.
I was responding specifically to your paragraph about Google.
Re: Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"
#367Here's one potential cultural snafu - my understanding is US intelligence based almost entirely on SIGINT. I'm not sure how great we are at plain old HUMINT, i.e. using people and relationships to get information and an overall picture of the world. So all the defense community was raised on SIGINT, and anything seen as a curb on this - technical or legal, they will probably view it as some sort of existential threat…
The rise of technology, both its widespread use by the public and the ability to capture it by agencies, had made SIGINT seem much more attractive in the couple of decades prior to 9/11.
So, yes, agencies had become over-reliant on SIGINT over HUMINT, but for understandable reasons with the benefit of hindsight. Currently, they certainly don't view it as an existential threat and all agencies are working to re-establish HUMINT capability, the opposite of trying to block it. The trouble is that it is hard, really hard work.
Re: Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"
#368Earlier quoted context omitted.
He isn't saying Israel is less moral at all. The book mentioned above specifically points out there are a good handful of companies that sell hardware/tech to the US government that have originated in Israel. I think the point being that Israel happens to excel at this type of thing due to the simple fact that they have been surrounded by countries who have wanted to wipe them off the map for a long time. This has ha…
In the context of the comment he was replying to, and the allusion to "cultural differences" it doesn't seem to be just about technical proficiency. Otherwise, the second the part of his reply is meaningless, and the entire comment seems out of context.
Re: Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"
#369Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a fair point. There are an array of risks that less (or more) intelligence shifts the balance around on. N.b., I don't really like to frame it as "attacks on democracy". That is (1) hyperbolic and (2) not obviously true. Words must be chosen very carefully in this debate (and it is a debate!) in order to not mislead or scare people away. I would argue that TLA snooping leads to the "Chilling effects" idea, whe…
I'm interested in this distinction. It seems to me fairly self-evident that actions which chill debate or discussion limit political expression and an informed electorate, thereby fundamentally impinging on democracy. Why then distinguish between 'chilling effects' and an attack on democracy?
Let me frame the thought by giving an example: if I am talking with someone, I might not say a few things because, hey, the TLA might care enough to pull the record and listen in. Or we take care to communicate with GPG or something. It inhibits what we do. We can still vote; our vote actually has meaning; our votes actually change the elected officials, etc. We still can run a socialist candidate (c.f. Kshama Sawant 2013 in Seattle) and they aren't shut down via police action or other hardcore discrimination.
This is in contrast against what it could do: it could be always used to harass and discriminate against those dissenting from the Two Parties and the State. Anyone who said anything would be looked at and actions taken to shut them up and limit the expression and formation of dissent.
While the database of communication could be used against people to significantly disrupt everyone who speaks out, it is not, and in my opinion, it will take a few emergencies like 9/11 to actually alter the mindset of the US to make that acceptable. Of course, people are harassed; some people are okay with that. It doesn't mean there's general acceptance of that, and it doesn't mean everyone is harassed.
Thus I draw the distinction: people self-censoring vs. the heavy hand of an apparatchik forcing change. The first is very immediate and to-hand; it's reality today. The other is possible, possibly even probable given certain courses of events, but fear-mongering is not the best way to go; let's deal with the clear and present threat at hand- chilling of free speech, chilling of dissent, chilling of the business interests of United States citizens, (frankly, these all apply outside the US as well, and hopefully the debate within the US around privacy and data capture also places the operations of TLAs on non-US citizens & non-US soil within the public purview of the United States citizenry via their elected representatives).
Fear does work as a campaign tactic, but the reality is, fear is not something people want to work for. People are willing to work for hope (didn't we all see that in 2008?), and I really would prefer the pro-privacy, pro-4th amendment activists focus on the positives and hope of what we can do rather than performing the traditional stick of the Republicans & Democrats (vote the other way and the free work and the US will END!!!11!oneoneone). It is in hope of being not being tracked against my will, not being monitored in every phone conversation, not being advertised at without my consent that I advocate for these changes to come to pass. It is in hope that I can say thoughts and perform actions online and offline and feel the liberty of not having peeping government Toms and raucous advertisers know anything about me.
So there's my distinction and my spiel. :-)
Re: Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"
#370I think it's pretty clear that we need both technical and legislative fixes to NSA surveillance. Just one of the two isn't enough: to get be even vaguely confident that surveillance ends, we need both. The technical fixes I can't speak to, but the legislative ones I've been thinking about for a while. In the last week, there have been two prominent bills announced to deal with surveillance: - Bill 1: The FISA Improve…
Feinstein is a villain. Time to get her out of office.