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Microsoft Earns $2 Billion Per Year From Android Patent Royalties?

businessinsider.com

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Re: Microsoft Earns $2 Billion Per Year From Android Patent Royalties?

#21

Post by Goronmon »

mtgx wrote: post #10

How can a company so shamelessly extract money (through forceful deals, no doubt) from an open source OS, and get away with it? Linux companies dodged this bullet for the most part, from both Microsoft and SCU, but it seems Microsoft "succeeded" this time against Android with their mostly garbage patents in the same way patent trolls and mass-bittorrent lawsuits have succeeded so far - by scaring people/companies int…

How can a company so shamelessly extract money (through forceful deals, no doubt) from an open source OS, and get away with it?

It's as simple as 'software patents'. This is the result of the current system.

Re: Microsoft Earns $2 Billion Per Year From Android Patent Royalties?

#22

Post by bobbles »

leokun wrote: post #9
mtgx wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Microsoft has ever made a profit on Xbox, although I'm sure they've split up and distributed its losses to all sorts of divisions to hide that. They're about to do the same with Bing, too, now.

So why do they make the xbox? Why are they making another one?

It's a bank that only makes change!

How does it make a profit?

Volume!

Re: Microsoft Earns $2 Billion Per Year From Android Patent Royalties?

#23

Post by sleepydog »

mtgx wrote: post #7
nemothekid wrote: post #3

Of that, $2 billion in losses are attributable to the Xbox platform. Wow, I would have never imagined the Xbox division to be in dire straits.

I don't think Microsoft has ever made a profit on Xbox, although I'm sure they've split up and distributed its losses to all sorts of divisions to hide that. They're about to do the same with Bing, too, now.

Are you sure? I remember reading that they make a ton of money on Xbox Live subscriptions.

Re: Microsoft Earns $2 Billion Per Year From Android Patent Royalties?

#24

Post by nickff »

tsycho wrote: post #5

If these numbers are accurate, then yuck!!! My disgust for software patents just went up even further. More seriously, I have a question for those who know more about this... 1. Are these generic, broad "idea" patents and hence there is nothing Google/OEMs can really do here to avoid licensing them? If not, why don't they use an alternative implementation to avoid the conflict? 2. If the answer to #1 is yes, how does…

>2. If the answer to #1 is yes, how does Apple avoid this problem? Are they also licensing from Microsoft? Or is Apple in some sort of a mutual cross-licensing agreement here to fight the common enemy Google?

They are all in a sort of standoff, as they cannot sue each other without putting themselves at risk of counter-claims. In addition, there are a number of cross-licensing deals between various large patent-owning entities, as you correctly surmised. Microsoft found a way around these issues, by suing Android implementers (such as Samsung, HTC, etc.), who do not have such large patent portfolios with which to make a "second strike".

Re: Microsoft Earns $2 Billion Per Year From Android Patent Royalties?

#26

Post by nickff »

zmmmmm wrote: post #15

Hopefully - and I really hope this - most of these patents are stupid stuff from the early days of graphical operating systems and are ready to expire in the next few years (given a 20 year lifespan for most patents).

This thought is a "triumph of hope over experience", (as was said of second marriages by Samuel Johnson).

Re: Microsoft Earns $2 Billion Per Year From Android Patent Royalties?

#27

Post by recuter »

nickff wrote: post #24
tsycho wrote: post #5

If these numbers are accurate, then yuck!!! My disgust for software patents just went up even further. More seriously, I have a question for those who know more about this... 1. Are these generic, broad "idea" patents and hence there is nothing Google/OEMs can really do here to avoid licensing them? If not, why don't they use an alternative implementation to avoid the conflict? 2. If the answer to #1 is yes, how does…

>2. If the answer to #1 is yes, how does Apple avoid this problem? Are they also licensing from Microsoft? Or is Apple in some sort of a mutual cross-licensing agreement here to fight the common enemy Google? They are all in a sort of standoff, as they cannot sue each other without putting themselves at risk of counter-claims. In addition, there are a number of cross-licensing deals between various large patent-ownin…

Why doesn't google consider an attack against their vassal states aggression against its empire? Like a Cuban missle crisis of sorts.

Re: Microsoft Earns $2 Billion Per Year From Android Patent Royalties?

#28

Post by oceanstone »

mtgx wrote: post #10

How can a company so shamelessly extract money (through forceful deals, no doubt) from an open source OS, and get away with it? Linux companies dodged this bullet for the most part, from both Microsoft and SCU, but it seems Microsoft "succeeded" this time against Android with their mostly garbage patents in the same way patent trolls and mass-bittorrent lawsuits have succeeded so far - by scaring people/companies int…

My guess is that the device manufacturers see some legitimacy to Microsoft's claims, or at least fear a judge would. Perhaps if all the manufacturers banded together, well mainly Samsung, they could fight it. But if that would have been profitable, I'd assume it would have happened by now.

Re: Microsoft Earns $2 Billion Per Year From Android Patent Royalties?

#29

Post by nickff »

recuter wrote: post #27
nickff wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>2. If the answer to #1 is yes, how does Apple avoid this problem? Are they also licensing from Microsoft? Or is Apple in some sort of a mutual cross-licensing agreement here to fight the common enemy Google? They are all in a sort of standoff, as they cannot sue each other without putting themselves at risk of counter-claims. In addition, there are a number of cross-licensing deals between various large patent-ownin…

Why doesn't google consider an attack against their vassal states aggression against its empire? Like a Cuban missle crisis of sorts.

I am not sure if you are asking me, but in case you are: I do not know.

Re: Microsoft Earns $2 Billion Per Year From Android Patent Royalties?

#30

Post by naner »

tsycho wrote: post #5

If these numbers are accurate, then yuck!!! My disgust for software patents just went up even further. More seriously, I have a question for those who know more about this... 1. Are these generic, broad "idea" patents and hence there is nothing Google/OEMs can really do here to avoid licensing them? If not, why don't they use an alternative implementation to avoid the conflict? 2. If the answer to #1 is yes, how does…

It isn't clear that Google is one of the companies who pays them. If Microsoft went after Google it seems like Google would have made a stink about it. Microsoft generally goes after companies they expect to be compliant (such as Amazon, who was already paying a patent fee for using Linux on their servers).

It seemed like in the past their method was to say they have patents covering X (in the past X was Linux) and you can license them for some specified amount. I don't think they were specific. If you refused, they would throw out some specifics and take you to court (see TomTom).

I haven't paid much attention to patents in the mobile space so I'm not sure if things have changed.

I'm pretty sure Apple has a cross-licensing agreement with Microsoft, they appear to be more focused on a common enemy these days.

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