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Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag

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Re: Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag

#51

Post by DigitalJack »

declan wrote: post #47
DanBC wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance is a scam because insurance companies sell products with simple, big, headlines but complex fine print. They go to extreme measures to avoid paying out if possible.

If this were actually true then word would get around quickly and insurance companies would lose business as honest rivals emerge. (Hint: This hasn't happened. Because it's not true.) See, from a cancer patient writing three days ago who had her insurance canceled because of Obamacare: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230452750... "The second element essential to my fight is a United Healthcare PPO…

It's true and they all do it. Usually under the guise of "preauthorization."

Re: Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag

#52

Post by PeterisP »

What happens to people in USA with similar situation (employer-provided insurance ends, life sustaining healthcare is needed, no income to pay for that) who don't get a successful fundraiser?

Bankruptcy due to unpaid medical bills? Withheld treatment because of non-payment, possibly causing death? Both of these?

No offense, I'm simply curious on how the system works.

Re: Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag

#53

Post by oijaf888 »

moocowduckquack wrote: post #50
oijaf888 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is insurance a scam? You are lowering the impact an extreme event has on you in return for the payment of monthly amount.

How is insurance a scam? Insurance is a bet and for an insurer to make money you have to bet that your luck is going to be considerably worse than the average. People should just get together in large groups and pool their money, it would be much cheaper.

Isn't that why most insurance companies used to be mutual co-ops and only recently have become corporations? Essentially there are insurance companies that are exactly what you describe, people in a large group pooling their money.

Re: Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag

#54

Post by oijaf888 »

revelation wrote: post #41
oijaf888 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is insurance a scam? You are lowering the impact an extreme event has on you in return for the payment of monthly amount.

That's the point. An extreme event will be something that puts you out of work for at least a month, and for many people, they will no longer have a job after not working for a month. Since their insurance is coupled in intricate ways with their job, it ends when they need it most.

Right but that has no bearing on if the concept of insurance is a scam or not. Sure, health insurance in this country is tied to a job due to WW2 wage controls but that doesn't invalidate the entire concept of insurance.

Re: Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag

#55

Post by drzaiusapelord »

rtb wrote: post #5

(As a brit) I don't understand this: "Molly was employed at the small NPO Knowbility as the Open Web Evangelist. Knowbility was able to put her on Family and Medical Leave which allowed Molly to retain her health insurance coverage. The FMLA time period has ended and the only coverage available now is through COBRA." So she had health insurance, but now that she's ill and has to stop work, it is stopping? If health i…

The standard response is that she needed disability insurance on top of her medical insurance. So yeah, you need 2 different insurances in case you get a real illness in the US. This is how fucked up it is here. Unfortunately the GOP and conservative democrats killed any "public option" in the ACA so we'll never have anything like the NHS here.

Oh, I have this secondary insurance. It also sucks and will cost me a lot of money to take care of myself if I ever get as sick as Molly. I might have a chance of not losing my house with this insurance.

That's on top of student loans you're paying off and other things Europeans don't have to worry about, but according to HN libertarians its all "welfare nanny state statism" and somehow Ron and Rand Paul would fix everything if we could just make them dictators for life.

Re: Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag

#56

Post by oijaf888 »

fit2rule wrote: post #35
rtb wrote: post #5

(As a brit) I don't understand this: "Molly was employed at the small NPO Knowbility as the Open Web Evangelist. Knowbility was able to put her on Family and Medical Leave which allowed Molly to retain her health insurance coverage. The FMLA time period has ended and the only coverage available now is through COBRA." So she had health insurance, but now that she's ill and has to stop work, it is stopping? If health i…

Health Insurance isn't actually designed in the US to benefit the individual. Its defined to benefit those who sell health insurance. If you can't pay: you die. That is an axiom of the entire insurance industry.

I stopped paying my health insurance once and I didn't die.

Perhaps you mean if you don't pay for health insurance you are more likely to declare bankruptcy as a result of an unexpected healthcare issue however to equate declaring bankruptcy with death is a bit extreme imo.

Re: Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag

#57

Post by DanBC »

nollidge wrote: post #45
oijaf888 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is insurance a scam? You are lowering the impact an extreme event has on you in return for the payment of monthly amount.

I don't think DanBC is saying that insurance per se is a scam, but that the U.S. health insurance industry is unavoidably scammy. EDIT: Put another way: you're 100% correct that that's what insurance should do and purports to do, but that's not how it actually plays out with American health insurance.

No! I'm very much saying that most insurance (car insurance, home contents insurance, payer-protection insurance, flood protection insurance, etc etc) is rife with scammy practices and awful awful people - the scum of the earth.

Re: Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag

#58

Post by DanBC »

declan wrote: post #47
DanBC wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance is a scam because insurance companies sell products with simple, big, headlines but complex fine print. They go to extreme measures to avoid paying out if possible.

If this were actually true then word would get around quickly and insurance companies would lose business as honest rivals emerge. (Hint: This hasn't happened. Because it's not true.) See, from a cancer patient writing three days ago who had her insurance canceled because of Obamacare: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230452750... "The second element essential to my fight is a United Healthcare PPO…

> then word would get around quickly and insurance companies would lose business as honest rivals emerge.

I can never tell if someone actually believes the free market opinion they give, or if they're parodying stuff other people say.

People buy insurance by price. Insurers cut price by not paying out.

Re: Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag

#59

Post by yummyfajitas »

DanBC wrote: post #24
rtb wrote: post #5

(As a brit) I don't understand this: "Molly was employed at the small NPO Knowbility as the Open Web Evangelist. Knowbility was able to put her on Family and Medical Leave which allowed Molly to retain her health insurance coverage. The FMLA time period has ended and the only coverage available now is through COBRA." So she had health insurance, but now that she's ill and has to stop work, it is stopping? If health i…

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jun2009/... > Medical problems caused 62% of all personal bankruptcies filed in the U.S. in 2007, according to a study by Harvard researchers. And in a finding that surprised even the researchers, 78% of those filers had medical insurance at the start of their illness, including 60.3% who had private coverage, not Medicare or Medicaid. EDIT: Insurance is a scam and…

No, they didn't. The number of medical bankruptcies is:

    # Medical bankruptcies = # bankruptcies x [P(bankruptcy | medical event) - P(bankruptcy | no medical event)] x P(medical event)
The study in question merely measured P(medical event | bankruptcy), which is what that 62% number represents.

The verbiage of the study and press release confused a bunch of innumerate reporters, but HN is smarter than that.

Re: Help Us Help Molly Holzschlag

#60

Post by xerophtye »

moocowduckquack wrote: post #50
oijaf888 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is insurance a scam? You are lowering the impact an extreme event has on you in return for the payment of monthly amount.

How is insurance a scam? Insurance is a bet and for an insurer to make money you have to bet that your luck is going to be considerably worse than the average. People should just get together in large groups and pool their money, it would be much cheaper.

>People should just get together in large groups and pool their money, it would be much cheaper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takaful

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