161–170 of 177 posts
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Dart's one advantage is very fast development cycle if you use Dart VM in Dartium. No js compilation needed. Very well designed user APIs, Excellent modularity (with pub) and good editor support eliminates many opponents.
I have that with many other languages as well.
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Use chrome when debugging
How to debug browser specific behaviors?
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I don't understand this. Dart is a dynamic language that gives you the option of adding types that help with tooling, documentation and some type checking at design time. At run time you can run it in checked mode and it will always tell the truth. This means that if you cover your code at all, manually or automatically then it will inform you of type errors. If you don't cover your code before releasing it then you…
> Dart is a dynamic language that gives you the option of adding types that help with tooling, documentation and some type checking at design time. But the tooling and documentation aren't telling you what will happen at runtime. > At run time you can run it in checked mode and it will always tell the truth. It doesn't tell you the truth. A static type system is designed to rule out errors are compile time. That's wh…
> This means that if you cover your code at all, manually or automatically then it will inform you of type errors. >> This is always true in any dynamic language.
No, there's a difference. I will get the error in dart as soon as I try to use the object in any way. In a dynamic language I could call a few methods on it before calling a method it does not support. i.e. it behaves like a compiler would except at run-time. This makes a big difference in how quickly you can debug it and again this is only for the minority of scenarios that are not covered at compile time.
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> What is the pathway for Dart adoption? dart2js: https://www.dartlang.org/docs/dart-up-and-running/contents/c...
How is that different from all the other languages out there that transpile to JavaScript?
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> Sigh... I knew this was going to happen. :-/ Yay... I was hoping this would happen :-) > This is part of Google's strategy to push Dart in the browser. I know, great, right. > Sadly, this is the nature of so-called "Open Source" at Google. I criticize Google often but yeah this is great. Good for Google. It is more than what Oracle or Microsoft or others do. My opinion is this -- JS is a shitty language. It was a s…
> It is even better if it gets bypassed altogether. That won't happen. With the amount of JavaScript on the Web, JS is immortal. All you can do is to add another language alongside it. > There were other posts here about JS's warts, so I am not the only one who welcome any other sane, normal, language to replace it. But it won't be replaced.
One thing that would help is a couple of killer websites or applications that would do something much better than the rest. If it used Dart and ran on the latest Chrome, that would help its adoption.
It would help Google too because it would increase Chrome install instances running.
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When dart was released its authors asked for and received, some very specific feedback about syntax which they mentioned they'd be amenable to changing. Nothing has changed. Much like android dart is controlled by a small group of engineers in Google. Where's the source code to the current HEAD of dart? I'm pretty sure it's not on GitHub. What features are planned for the next release? I'm fairly sure dart-discuss do…
> When dart was released its authors asked for and received, some very specific feedback about syntax which they mentioned they'd be amenable to changing. Nothing has changed. This is simply not true! I've been following the language for a long time and they have made a lot of changes, they have listened to feedback. Just search 'BREAKING CHANGE' on the mailing lists. During the first year there were tons of changes…
The designers have also made it very clear that the types next to a variable are basically useless at runtime (unless you turn on strict mode, which kills performance). Types are for tooling only, which seems silly.
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Oh, why not? I wouldn't mind watching a highlight reel and you seem so gleeful . --- I think my reasoning throughout this page has been more or less articulated, but I suppose I might try for a compact representation. What exactly do you think is going to happen with Dart? Is Google going to add Dart to every Chrome install? Sure, maybe. Will so many developers cry out that Safari and IE will also be forced to implem…
You claimed that Dart is a flawed language. Substantiate that claim. Basic stuff here. If you can't, I must assume you're a troll or have no clue yet somehow think you do. > Do you think Dart is that amazing? Do you think Dart is just so wonderful that it'll unite the programming world as never before? The world isn't black and white. Dart doesn't have to be perfect to be a viable alternative to JS. > Even Google's p…
I was echoing OP (the one who was bemoaning snark and cynicism). Read his paragraphs. Flawed doesn't mean crippled. There are things about Dart I like.
A language can't be perfect.
>No, they both thrive and benefit from the other.
Pay attention to negative feedback. Some substantial portion of AngularJS devs are unhappy.
>Take a cursory look and you'll find some arguments for Dart
I'm not arguing for Dart's existence here, I'm saying Dart has absolutely no chance of securing the browser's runtime over javascript. Why Dart, why not Go?
>So you know more about dart2js capabilities than the creators of V8 and Dart?
https://github.com/jbdeboer/angular-dart-js-size/blob/master...
173KB. This is ridiculous.
Say whatever you want about benchmarks, Angular.dart is either a terrible port (quite possible) or Dart's transpiler isn't on the level of CoffeeScript or TypeScript.
>This is the condescending and arrogant attitude I spoke of.
I'm asserting something grand and sweeping that I think to be true. Get over it or walk away.
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You claimed that Dart is a flawed language. Substantiate that claim. Basic stuff here. If you can't, I must assume you're a troll or have no clue yet somehow think you do. > Do you think Dart is that amazing? Do you think Dart is just so wonderful that it'll unite the programming world as never before? The world isn't black and white. Dart doesn't have to be perfect to be a viable alternative to JS. > Even Google's p…
>You claimed that Dart is a flawed language. I was echoing OP (the one who was bemoaning snark and cynicism). Read his paragraphs. Flawed doesn't mean crippled. There are things about Dart I like. A language can't be perfect. >No, they both thrive and benefit from the other. Pay attention to negative feedback. Some substantial portion of AngularJS devs are unhappy. >Take a cursory look and you'll find some arguments…
Define "substantial". I've seen some complaints here that AngularDart has, and will, take away from AngularJS, which, again, is unsubstantiated. It's counter to the evidence and the likelihood that the groups working together will make both better.
> I'm not arguing for Dart's existence here, I'm saying Dart has absolutely no chance of securing the browser's runtime over javascript.
Uh, you've expressed "cynicism [...] over Google's waste of time" and called Dart "pretty flawed", which you haven't substantiated yet. If your were merely expressing skepticism over Dart "securing the browser's runtime over javascript", there wouldn't be a discussion here. Brendan Eich did that for you a long time ago. I'd contend that it doesn't really matter as long as dart2js can fulfill its goals; however, I'd still maintain a wait-and-see attitude about how we'll see DartVM used. There are some very interesting possibilities.
> 173KB. This is ridiculous.
Substance! Thank you. Dart is pre-1.0. It's being worked on. Also, notice at the bottom of that page:
We want your help, especially if you can make update
@MirrorsUsed in main.dart to generate a smaller binary.
No, I won't. The attitude isn't conducive to civil discourse and not welcome here so I'll continue calling it out where I see it. I'll take the upvotes as confirmation that others agree with me.
You've got your unsubstantiated opinions and will continue making these "sweeping" claims so there's no point in continuing here. It leaves little room for meaningful discussion, unfortunately.