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Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"

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Re: Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"

#21

Post by wmf »

SCdF wrote: post #6

This has been asked before, but I'd love to hear from a dev (anonymously of course) who actually helped build this NSA madness. Is it like The Cube, where no one really knew what each piece was for? Is it that they are morally pro the NSA's attitude toward personal and corporate privacy, or do they just not care either way?

In The Shadow Factory (written after the Klein leaks but before Snowden), Bamford notes that a lot of surveillance equipment comes from Israel. I don't know much about Israeli culture but it may be significantly different from the US.

Re: Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"

#22

Post by cromwellian »

poxrud wrote: post #16

The NSA must have somebody working on the inside at google. Otherwise it would be extremely difficult to reverse engineer the RPC protocol that was used by google's servers to communicate between each other. Even on an unencrypted network I can image it would be very difficult to reverse engineer the protocol without any help.

No need to reverse engineer it, it's a public spec, ProtoBufs. It's like saying "it's extremely difficult to reverse engineer JSON"

Re: Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"

#23

Post by vinkelhake »

poxrud wrote: post #16

The NSA must have somebody working on the inside at google. Otherwise it would be extremely difficult to reverse engineer the RPC protocol that was used by google's servers to communicate between each other. Even on an unencrypted network I can image it would be very difficult to reverse engineer the protocol without any help.

The RPC protocol is stated to be based on protocol buffers so the encoding is known. What you would need to do to reverse engineer it is coming up with matching message descriptions.

But, even without that piece of the puzzle, reverse engineering a protocol that doesn't use encryption wouldn't be "extremely difficult". This is not an indication of an inside man.

https://developers.google.com/protocol-buffers/docs/overview

Re: Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"

#26

Post by digitalboss »

SCdF wrote: post #6

This has been asked before, but I'd love to hear from a dev (anonymously of course) who actually helped build this NSA madness. Is it like The Cube, where no one really knew what each piece was for? Is it that they are morally pro the NSA's attitude toward personal and corporate privacy, or do they just not care either way?

I asked this question 6 months ago, I liked the reply.

---- Most programmers are very much unlike you or I. Think about those legions of DoD/DoD contractor engineers that trust government implicitly and totally, and really don't give a shit about more "hacker"/"technologist" subjects. ---- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5836416

Re: Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"

#27

Post by coldtea »

pavs wrote: post #14
babar wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people assume the Chinese government is not able to use similar techniques?

More importantly, whats the difference between Chinese and American government when it comes to privacy?

That the US intervenes domestically and in Europe, L. America, Middle East, etc, whereas China is mostly concerned with itself.

Re: Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"

#28

Post by tedunangst »

pavs wrote: post #14
babar wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people assume the Chinese government is not able to use similar techniques?

More importantly, whats the difference between Chinese and American government when it comes to privacy?

The terrible things the Chinese government does aren't being done to you.

Re: Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"

#29

Post by samstave »

tantalor wrote: post #15
babar wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people assume the Chinese government is not able to use similar techniques?

The Chinese were targeting specific journalists and critics. Presumably to harass them. I'm not saying the US doesn't do that, but the evidence is not as clear.

Maybe you didn't notice the detainment of Greenwald's partner by the GCHQ whereby they demanded him to turn-over/destroy whatever he had.

Further, the break-in to Greenwald's residence and theft of his machine.

As well as the visit to the Guardian and destrution of machines....

The evidence is crystal.

Re: Google Security Team Member on NSA: "Fuck These Guys"

#30

Post by zaqokm »

PakG1 wrote: post #17
zaqokm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

William Binney in an interview suggested that the tech he built for spying on foreign countries was simply retrofitted and used to spy internally. I am gathering not a lot of people actually knew what was happening at the beginning, and the tools they were using for "valid" purposes were just refocused.

There still have to be technical people involved for refocusing software. You don't simply drag and drop an icon to get something redeployed for another purpose, and definitely not for something of this complexity.

I agree, however I think it is very credible that a lot of people involved in this were not fully aware or complicit in regards to what was happen.

I do not think they were stupid, but just didn't see the entire picture, or were never given the entire picture.

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