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The Cheapest Generation

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Re: The Cheapest Generation

#91

Post by ewzimm »

justin66 wrote: post #83
angersock wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prediction: The real test of our generation is going to be whether or not we succeed in bringing government back down to more manageable local levels, a sort of backlash against federalism. The majority of issues we have could and should be solved locally, for proper values of "locally". The technology we have today could then be used to federate these communities on larger issues without giving over autonomy.

You're kind of misusing the term federalism, I think. It generally applies in the US to moving power back from the federal government to the states, which actually seems to be in keeping with what you are advocating. (it's strongest advocates in US politics have been people who are bitter about the federal government enacting the Civil Rights Act and stuff like that, so... have fun with your new friends)

Federalism has many meanings, but the basic concept is an association of equals or near-equals who make decisions by established protocols. While the US Federal Government was established in a time when communication could take weeks, by the mid-ninteenth century, communication was near-instantaneous, and many political thinkers tried to convince people that they could give up such a high level of representation in favor of mutual decision making based on systematic federalism. This was the beginning of the anarchist political movement, but it was widely dismissed by socialists in favor of traditional power hierarchies. Perhaps today with our even better communications infrastructure, we might be able to revisit some of these ideas of a more distributed power structure.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#92

Post by xemoka »

hnpoliticsthr12 wrote: post #86
angersock wrote: post #7

Here are some scattered observations and opinions as somebody in this generation. I'm basically just dumping gut feelings here--don't expect a lot of well-written explanations. There is not a lot worth buying that is long-lasting. Most everything feels mass-produced and cheap, and the things that aren't are pretty obviously marketed at people trying to buck that trend. I don't want to pay 10x more for something witho…

> Most everything feels mass-produced and cheap That's because most everything that you use other people want to use as well. Companies will manufacture them en mass. That's why they're cheap. That's a good thing. Perhaps you should solder your next keyboard yourself? I have a pair of logitech speakers that I bought 8 years ago (mass produced, of course) that sound great. And they were pretty cheap at the time. What…

>Your whole rant comes off as entitled. You haven't really said anything of value. Just hackneyed sentiments that you can see any day on reddit or on Facebook.

You seem to be suffering from the same curse here. Every counter-point you make is no less evident of your own privilege. You've taken many of his points and flat out denied or stated it's his fault—solely from your own perspective.

You seemingly like to blame the people who feel like victims instead of discovering WHY they feel like victims, I suppose that is a product of our society though eh? Is it not enough that this is how he feels? You're telling him that his feelings are wrong; funny thing about feelings, they don't go away because you're told they're wrong.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#93

Post by justin66 »

ewzimm wrote: post #91
justin66 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're kind of misusing the term federalism, I think. It generally applies in the US to moving power back from the federal government to the states, which actually seems to be in keeping with what you are advocating. (it's strongest advocates in US politics have been people who are bitter about the federal government enacting the Civil Rights Act and stuff like that, so... have fun with your new friends)

Federalism has many meanings, but the basic concept is an association of equals or near-equals who make decisions by established protocols. While the US Federal Government was established in a time when communication could take weeks, by the mid-ninteenth century, communication was near-instantaneous, and many political thinkers tried to convince people that they could give up such a high level of representation in f…

The loudest advocates in the US for federalism have been the nutty and frankly rather mean far right-wingers but it's worth mentioning that Noam Chomskyesque anarcho-syndicalism also involves some similar levels of decentralization.

The why and the how matter a lot in making that happen.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#94

Post by mkr-hn »

jnbiche wrote: post #74
jseliger wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like a lot of what you say, especially about cars and urban development ( http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2013/08/13/why-would-you-want-... ), but I will note a couple other things: Police... always always always make things worse They don't always make things worse, as I discovered when a random guy pounded on my door in the middle of the night and threatened to kill me: http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/guy-…

Sorry, I'm going to disagree here. My generation worked our asses off getting Obama elected, and was really the driving force behind his election (to my shame). Yet, as soon as he's in office, all his promises to us, all his soothing words, all his assurances of change, were out the window. Other than some lame alternative to single-payer health insurance, and (only after major prodding) some gay rights advances, he'…

> Sorry, I'm going to disagree here. My generation worked our asses off getting Obama elected, and was really the driving force behind his election (to my shame). Yet, as soon as he's in office, all his promises to us, all his soothing words, all his assurances of change, were out the window. Other than some lame alternative to single-payer health insurance, and (only after major prodding) some gay rights advances, he's become George Bush II.

I noticed this during the two-year campaign. People would ascribe views and assertions to him that simply weren't true. He always took moderate to conservative positions on things. As far as I can tell, he's done or tried to do just about everything he said he would.

My advice would be to pay attention to what candidates are actually saying and not rely on second-hand takes from blogs and poorly-sourced news reports. That's what I did, and nothing surprised me. I knew Obama would be a modest improvement over the status quo, and that's what I got. He was the best of a lot of bad options.

And stop skipping non-Presidential elections.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#95

Post by ewzimm »

justin66 wrote: post #93
ewzimm wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Federalism has many meanings, but the basic concept is an association of equals or near-equals who make decisions by established protocols. While the US Federal Government was established in a time when communication could take weeks, by the mid-ninteenth century, communication was near-instantaneous, and many political thinkers tried to convince people that they could give up such a high level of representation in f…

The loudest advocates in the US for federalism have been the nutty and frankly rather mean far right-wingers but it's worth mentioning that Noam Chomskyesque anarcho-syndicalism also involves some similar levels of decentralization. The why and the how matter a lot in making that happen.

Power is so entrenched in the US that it's unlikely anyone will make significant changes from political office any time soon, but we can already see distributed power structures springing up in local neighborhoods that are underserved by their government. Detroit is a good example right now. People don't expect any help from the government, so they take care of things on their own and utilize community space to do it. When things get bad, people really have no choice but to be more self-sufficient and community's oriented.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#96

Post by yareally »

pazimzadeh wrote: post #81
narrator wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Our parents set our city planning up for failure. The primary reason for anti-walkability is to keep "riff-raff" out of the nice suburbs. The white flight from the cities in the 60s and 70s was a huge event in American urban planning and those whites who wound up in the suburbs don't want any of that inner-city stuff they got away from downtown from mucking up their suburb. It's horrible but it's the truth. It's one…

Why do people get divorced??

I always thought it came down to one of two reasons (or both).

- Money and the lack of properly managing it.

- Diminishing interest as a relationship matures as well as a lack of open communication that's needed to keep a healthy relationship. Part of that is also due to not communicating well enough before getting married so one knows exactly who they are marrying ("love is blind"). That generally leads to one spouse to eventually cheat on the other or passively give up on the relationship.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#97

Post by YokoZar »

harpastum wrote: post #63
warfangle wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because the cost of a car-share is somehow independent of gas prices? Really? Zip car rentals include gas.

But the rental price includes the price of gas. If gas prices tripled tomorrow, Zipcar would have to raise their rates. It's a bit more decoupled for the customer, but it has the same impact overall.

If gas prices are expected to be continuously high, you will try to structure your life in a way that can minimize car usage (say, living in an urban area). That can make not even owning a car at all a viable option.

If you're such a person, and do happen to occasionally need a car for something, that makes you much more likely to be a ZipCar customer. Zipcar doesn't make new customers by having driving be practical, they make new customers by having driving be impractical enough to be (almost entirely) avoided.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#98

Post by tvjunky »

xemoka wrote: post #92
hnpoliticsthr12 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most everything feels mass-produced and cheap That's because most everything that you use other people want to use as well. Companies will manufacture them en mass. That's why they're cheap. That's a good thing. Perhaps you should solder your next keyboard yourself? I have a pair of logitech speakers that I bought 8 years ago (mass produced, of course) that sound great. And they were pretty cheap at the time. What…

>Your whole rant comes off as entitled. You haven't really said anything of value. Just hackneyed sentiments that you can see any day on reddit or on Facebook. You seem to be suffering from the same curse here. Every counter-point you make is no less evident of your own privilege. You've taken many of his points and flat out denied or stated it's his fault—solely from your own perspective. You seemingly like to blame…

I think this rebuttal adds some perspective, asks some additional questions and certainly doesn't cast blame. I think it makes a clear point in the end. That point, your feelings/thoughts are not new or special and is more hyperbole than thoughtful comment. It's a tough world out there snowflake. If you see victimization in not wanting to own a car or house, then you have some big surprises coming.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#99

Post by Bramble »

jnbiche wrote: post #74
jseliger wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like a lot of what you say, especially about cars and urban development ( http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2013/08/13/why-would-you-want-... ), but I will note a couple other things: Police... always always always make things worse They don't always make things worse, as I discovered when a random guy pounded on my door in the middle of the night and threatened to kill me: http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/guy-…

Sorry, I'm going to disagree here. My generation worked our asses off getting Obama elected, and was really the driving force behind his election (to my shame). Yet, as soon as he's in office, all his promises to us, all his soothing words, all his assurances of change, were out the window. Other than some lame alternative to single-payer health insurance, and (only after major prodding) some gay rights advances, he'…

As much as I empathize with you in feeling that our vote is useless in the presidential elections, I would like to remind you that our votes still matter in local elections. I'm sick of people telling me they don't vote because our president hasn't made enough changes in our corporate-driven, polarized, two party system. I am just as disappointed in our government as you are, however, I know that when I vote for a mayor, I am voting for someone who actually can/will make visible changes in my community. Additionally, every ballot contains various propositions and bills, where I am able to vote directly on various tax increases, local law modifications, etc. These are important issues, and I encourage all of my friends to register, if only for these reasons.

Re: The Cheapest Generation

#100

Post by mattstreet »

cenhyperion wrote: post #28

“We just think nobody truly understands them yet.” I don't think that's true. I think that auto manufacturers don't want to accept that millennials don't associate cars with freedom, independence, maturity, and sex in the same way that cars were viewed by previous generations. At most they're a way to get from point A to B for most millennials, at worst (if you're a car maker) they're viewed as dirty machines that th…

I'm a Gen X'er and I totally think this way. I'm not sure how many X/Y'ers pay attention but I know some of us also lay a lot of blame on the car markers for shaping our cities into the car focused messes they are today.
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