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What Causes Hunger?

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Re: What Causes Hunger?

#11

Post by maestro8 »

kephra wrote: post #8

I'm missing some points: - Land grabs: Big investors buy agriculture land to produce cash crops for export, e.g soy beans to feed pigs. - Colonial past: Most land in 3rd world countries is owned by a few rich people. E.g. Namibia was a hunger country before 1990, but is now one of the biggest meat exporters after a successful land reform. - Frankenfood: Monsanto and other big seed companies destroying the ability of…

Could you expand on how "Frankenfood" is causing hunger? From what I've read from the farmers that use Monsanto seed, they claim that their crops' yields are more predictable. This claim is backed by recent research: http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2013/02/do-gmo-crops...

Re: What Causes Hunger?

#12

Post by 011011100 »

crusso wrote: post #10
DanBC wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people have children with the expectation of being able to feed them, and then things change. You claim it's the most obvious cause of hunger, but do you have anything to support that claim?

Most people have children with the expectation of being able to feed them See already you're off base. Someone's individual expectation is not at all necessarily a "reasonable expectation". There are lots of gamblers in Vegas who expect to win big tonight... doesn't mean their expectations are reasonable. but do you have anything to support that claim What, like statistical evidence? No. I don't have statistical evid…

"See already you're off base. Someone's individual expectation is not at all necessarily a "reasonable expectation". There are lots of gamblers in Vegas who expect to win big tonight... doesn't mean their expectations are reasonable."

How should people make decisions if they can't trust their own judgment? You're going to one extreme and saying "lots of people are unreasonable". Ok, great. Lots of people are also very reasonable.

"See already you're off base."

That's just a fancy way of starting off the conversation by saying "you're wrong". No, he probably just doesn't agree with you. You should stop trying to frame everything in this objective manner. It's actually really obnoxious.

Re: What Causes Hunger?

#13

Post by 011011100 »

crusso wrote: post #10
DanBC wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people have children with the expectation of being able to feed them, and then things change. You claim it's the most obvious cause of hunger, but do you have anything to support that claim?

Most people have children with the expectation of being able to feed them See already you're off base. Someone's individual expectation is not at all necessarily a "reasonable expectation". There are lots of gamblers in Vegas who expect to win big tonight... doesn't mean their expectations are reasonable. but do you have anything to support that claim What, like statistical evidence? No. I don't have statistical evid…

"What, like statistical evidence? No. I don't have statistical evidence that my car is parked outside either, but I'll still take a chance on it by walking to the spot where I left it earlier."

No, but you do have evidence by just being able to go outside and observe your car. You're not operating without reason when you go back to where you left it earlier.

Your reply is written in a very condescending way. You should know that.

Re: What Causes Hunger?

#14

Post by kephra »

maestro8 wrote: post #11
kephra wrote: post #8

I'm missing some points: - Land grabs: Big investors buy agriculture land to produce cash crops for export, e.g soy beans to feed pigs. - Colonial past: Most land in 3rd world countries is owned by a few rich people. E.g. Namibia was a hunger country before 1990, but is now one of the biggest meat exporters after a successful land reform. - Frankenfood: Monsanto and other big seed companies destroying the ability of…

Could you expand on how "Frankenfood" is causing hunger? From what I've read from the farmers that use Monsanto seed, they claim that their crops' yields are more predictable. This claim is backed by recent research: http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2013/02/do-gmo-crops...

e.g. https://www.google.com/search?q=monsanto+india+suicide

The base problem is: Once your neighbor starts to use Monanto and round up, the ground water and soil is poisoned and you need to grow resistant crops also. Using Frankenfood crops means that you can no longer grow your own seeds. You have to buy the expensive seeds, the expensive herbicides, and you end up in debt and poverty.

You can also no longer do classical crop rotation, once you start poisoning your field with roundup. The result is a monoculture that calls for even more fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides.

This is not limited to Frankenfood, but also to hybrid plants. So we come back to food laws, who only allow to sell crops of certain strains. Those strains that are sold by big seed companies.

Re: What Causes Hunger?

#15

Post by mullingitover »

crusso wrote: post #7
mullingitover wrote: post #6

ctrl+f 'overpopulation' 0 results. Sure, let's just completely ignore the elephant in the room.

As you roll back the calendar, when in human history has lower population meant less per-capita hunger in the world?

Allow me to correct myself: s/overpopulation/high birth rates/g

Look at a map showing the countries with the highest birth rates, and overlay it with a map showing the countries with the highest rates of hunger. You won't find a lot of difference between the two.

Re: What Causes Hunger?

#16

Post by a_c_s »

kephra wrote: post #8

I'm missing some points: - Land grabs: Big investors buy agriculture land to produce cash crops for export, e.g soy beans to feed pigs. - Colonial past: Most land in 3rd world countries is owned by a few rich people. E.g. Namibia was a hunger country before 1990, but is now one of the biggest meat exporters after a successful land reform. - Frankenfood: Monsanto and other big seed companies destroying the ability of…

Frankenfood is the one I take issue with: there are plenty of things to criticize Monsanto for, but being able to 'grow your own seeds' has little to do with GMO's.

Crops like corn/maize haven't been replantable in the USA since hybridization caught on in the 1940's.

Re: What Causes Hunger?

#17

Post by lnanek2 »

DanBC wrote: post #9
crusso wrote: post #3

Sorry to say it, but that list doesn't include the most obvious cause of hunger. _People who reproduce when they don't have a reasonable expectation of feeding their offspring._ It seems like a whole class of possible solutions to the problem of hunger are ignored with such a tunnel vision approach to the problem.

Most people have children with the expectation of being able to feed them, and then things change. You claim it's the most obvious cause of hunger, but do you have anything to support that claim?

That seems wildly unlikely to me. Most people have kids. That's it. They sure as hell don't plan them out and make sure they will be able to provide for them. What's next, do you think most people plan out and save for their retirement too? Why do you think we need a social security program instead of just letting people expect to be able to retire? Answer: people don't.

Re: What Causes Hunger?

#18

Post by arethuza »

kephra wrote: post #8

I'm missing some points: - Land grabs: Big investors buy agriculture land to produce cash crops for export, e.g soy beans to feed pigs. - Colonial past: Most land in 3rd world countries is owned by a few rich people. E.g. Namibia was a hunger country before 1990, but is now one of the biggest meat exporters after a successful land reform. - Frankenfood: Monsanto and other big seed companies destroying the ability of…

Tempting fate there, don't you mean "after invasion of Iraq"

Re: What Causes Hunger?

#19

Post by kephra »

arethuza wrote: post #18
kephra wrote: post #8

I'm missing some points: - Land grabs: Big investors buy agriculture land to produce cash crops for export, e.g soy beans to feed pigs. - Colonial past: Most land in 3rd world countries is owned by a few rich people. E.g. Namibia was a hunger country before 1990, but is now one of the biggest meat exporters after a successful land reform. - Frankenfood: Monsanto and other big seed companies destroying the ability of…

Tempting fate there, don't you mean "after invasion of Iraq"

oups thanks - corrected this!

Re: What Causes Hunger?

#20

Post by jacalata »

mullingitover wrote: post #15
crusso wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you roll back the calendar, when in human history has lower population meant less per-capita hunger in the world?

Allow me to correct myself: s/overpopulation/high birth rates/g Look at a map showing the countries with the highest birth rates, and overlay it with a map showing the countries with the highest rates of hunger. You won't find a lot of difference between the two.

You're making a pretty classic correlation/causation error here. I'm pretty sure that high child mortality and low economic prospects (e.g; conditions where many people are hungry) are considered to cause high birthrates, as the parents attempt to maximise their chances of having some offspring to look after them in their old age.
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